Canon 7D or...

[Bol Ray]

Hi Guys,
I have been using an EOS 350D since 2005. I have

Tamron SP AF28-75/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

I want to upgrade the body to get tack sharp images. what do you guys recommend.

buy a canon 7D
Abandon Canon for Nikon or Sony (I have heard sony sensors are one of the best in the market)

Ref. Sensor Ranking DxOMark - Sensor rankings (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Camera-Sensor/Sensor-rankings)
I am only looking to get the best images and I don't mind spending time clicking in RAW and spending time processing images
PLEASE HELP I AM DESPERATE

[Bambi]

If I had canon lenses and was happy with my previous Canon I would probably stick with it. At a certain price point I am not sure that there is much difference (but I could be wrong).

[JAS_Photo]

I think it is the photographer's technique and the lenses that make for sharp images. I think the advantages of a higher end camera are more along the line of how the camera operates . On the bigger, high end cameras, everything you need to adjust are a fingertip away for example. You can adjust settings on the fly instead of going to the interior menus. They also generally have larger sensors which is important if you are enlarging the photos significantly. Also ISO performance is generally better on the higher end cameras -which is a big deal.

[Bol Ray]

Thanks for your replys JAS_Photo and Bambi. I do identify that part of my problem in my technique and lenses.
Lately though, I have been frustrated with the noise I get when I am using ISO 400 on my camera. The colours are just too drab and the shadows are just WEAK for lack for a better term.
I am sure that in 5 years the sensors have improved enough to give me a better result. or maybe I just need a better lens and tripod/monopod.

still confused
appreciate any help
Thanks again you two.

[Iguanasan]

Maybe you should show some examples of your issues? We might be able to help. There does come a point when the camera holds you back and if you've been shooting for 5 years maybe you've reached it. I shoot with the Canon 350D (Rebel XSi) and my biggest complaint is also the ISO and lens sharpness but that's because I'm trying to shoot in relatively low light with inexpensive lenses :( My budget does not currently allow me to upgrade at the moment.

Anyway, if you have some examples we may be able to help identify the camera issue or possibly help you improve your skills/techniques to isolate whether the issue is the camera or the lens then you can better decide where to put your money.

[Bol Ray]

I am bothered by the lack of detail in the shadows. even at ISO 100, the details at 80% black and above are noisy
11897

11898

Is this what everybody faces?

The colour depth in this shot is also lost
11899

Trust me, these don't print as well as can be seen on the screen!

All I am asking is, I think I want to invest in a camera or lens now and I am strictly aiming to achieve a sharper image. in addition, I only have a budget to buy a lens or a body. which one should I upgrade? the body or the glass?

[Iguanasan]

Bump...I haven't had a chance to review this post but I don't want to forget it. Sorry for being slow. Maybe someone else has an opinion?

[mbrager]

Hi Bol Ray:
I'm a Canon shooter. I bought a 50D over a year ago and love it. Once one gets used to Canon, other Canon cameras have a similar feel so are easier to learn to use. A 7D will cost you around 1700 give or take. A 60D will cost you around 1000, a T2I around 700. From what I've read, the 7D is a magnificent piece of machinery with awesome focusing capabilities. I'm sure you have read all about it and drooled. I think it's overkill for us advanced amateurs. The newer 60D has less capability but is still a very reasonable camera, much better than entry level with features well beyond what the T2i has. Even the T2i is much improved over the T1i and the 350D. Canon has some really great EF-S lenses that fit all but their full frame cameras. In your situation, I would definitely consider the 60D or T2i instead of the 7D, and invest the difference in a new lens, either the EF 24-105 f4L IS, or the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS. Both are super lenses, and there's a trade off between them for reach versus speed. The IS works well on both lenses and would improve your sharpness. They cost about the same, around 1100. I might be quoting low dollar numbers, taking prices from the B&H website, so those are USD prices. Save your money for a telephoto lens after that, and you can consider yourself having fallen into the black hole called photography. You're on the edge right now.
By the way, I quite like your photo of the flower in the glass. Nice use of DOF.
Mike

[Bol Ray]

Thanks Iguanasan for keeping me in your radar, Much appreciated. mbrager, your advice was just the kind of advise and direction I needed. thanks a bunch. The price difference between 60D and 7D here in india is not that much. I might be wrong, but the difference here is only about 225 dollars (Rs.10000) that is that is making my decission a bit difficult. though you have surely motivated me to saveup for a good L lens.
thanks for the compliment about my pic.
Angad

[Iguanasan]

You're welcome. Glad someone could come through with some really good advise. It sounded very good to me anyway. I can't argue with your complaints too much as I think I'm running into similar issues now that I see you point them out. I'm going to suffer a bit longer (I don't have any money :( ) but I'll probably take mbrager's advise and buy a new lens or two then upgrade to the next level.

[Hillbillygirl]

Hello BolRay: I have owned two 7D's and fell in love with them. They are an amazing camera for the main subjects I shoot, avian species). That being said, don't worry they definitely hold their own in all manner of shooting. I know of several using them in-studio even. The fps and sealed body build, along with shooting/buffer speeds really made this the one for me. (That being said I have moved on to the 1DMkIV with 2 of them now).
If you are shooting a lot of action the 7D would definitely improve your keeper rate with the superb focus system.
You have not indicated your preferred subject to shoot, so cannot really recommend glass even at this point. (From your examples I might guess mostly static objects and landscape?) If that is the case maybe just the 60D with articulating screen would do you well.

HBG

HBG

[Bol Ray]

Thanks for pointing it out Hillbillygirl


Hello BolRay: I have owned two 7D's and fell in love with them. They are an amazing camera for the main subjects I shoot, avian species). That being said, don't worry they definitely hold their own in all manner of shooting. I know of several using them in-studio even. The fps and sealed body build, along with shooting/buffer speeds really made this the one for me. (That being said I have moved on to the 1DMkIV with 2 of them now).
If you are shooting a lot of action the 7D would definitely improve your keeper rate with the superb focus system.
You have not indicated your preferred subject to shoot, so cannot really recommend glass even at this point. (From your examples I might guess mostly static objects and landscape?) If that is the case maybe just the 60D with articulating screen would do you well.

HBG

HBG

The thing is, my style of photography is still very Raw. I enjoy alot of hand held closeup photography of flowers and was quite happy with them until I decided to print this photos. And I have to reject almost all of them either due to

noise artifact
hand shake (I really should get a quick deploying monopod/tripod)
inaccurate focus
and now my lens are loosing their contrast to fungus


Lately I have been clicking street photography. ( I did try landscape, but I just suck at it)

mbrager suggested that am better off investing in lens for crisper images and he does make a valid argument. before his post I just thought that my 350D's sensor is outdated and the newer sensors are light years ahead when it comes it contrast, saturation and noise. is it true? am I running the clarity race with a bum leg? if so which aliment (lens or body) is the one I need to cure first?

I have been photographing for the last 7 years but still cant say that I have a perticular style I call my own. I just enjoy photography toomuch to let this blow away.

If I seem scattered think I am going through a photographers' midlife crisis where anything I do seems to be wrong (I am only 26).

[Hillbillygirl]

Well Bol Ray, with what you have implied about street photography, close-up, and the odd landscape, I would definitely say invest in glass first.
Sounds like a lot of outdoor shooting to me, so I would definitely invest in "L" quality glass. Best there is for Canon, and weather-sealed-(since you made comment on fungus). Maybe start with a 17-40 f4, or the 24-105 f4 with IS. Both of these are good quality glass, and fairly inexpensive, especially if you buy used, (and don't be afraid to buy used). That goes for bodies also.
As you suggested, a decent monopod, or better yet, tripod, and always shoot in RAW format so as to be able to PP to your liking with so much more control than Jpeg, especially since noise seems to be an issue.
Sounds like you are quite dedicated to this and would like to improve your skills, so you do know it is not cheap to invest in your hobby. I would say, do not ever go into debt just for fun, but do not cheap out or you will be disappointed with the end results, and it will discourage you. If you do not have funds at the moment, save up, and in the meantime get a couple books on shooting techniques/styles that interest you, and get out and shoot as often as you can.

[Bol Ray]

Hillbillygirl you make me smile. ;-)
I have been shooting in raw for the past 4 years now and have 4 HDDs filled with archieves. It is a different story that I don't know how to really PP these pics from RAW.

Marko usually ends his podcasts talking about how supportive his forums are and how warm and friendly people are here. AND HE WAS RIGHT!

back the what you said Hillbillygirl, so you are saying that I definately need a newer/better glass more than a newer body.

I have been debating f/2.8 24-70 L or f/4 24-105 L. Leaning towards f/4 24-105 L for the image quality (read somewhere that its better between the two) but the f/2.8 looked much brighter from my tiny little view finder.

I am open to any suggestions between the three lens 17-40 f4L, or the 24-105 f4L, f/2.8 24-70 L
(May be I should start another post for the Lens and not clutter a body post with a lens post)

[Hillbillygirl]

Well, you can start a new thread or go with this one, I will try and help in either if I can.
Do you really need the speed and light gathering of the 24-70 or is it lust? Remember with the 24-105 you have IS which is good for two stops of light gathering ability also, and it is much lighter to hang on the neck for awhile. They both have their advantages over each other in this respect.
Now the 17-40 gives you less range and much more distortion on the wide end, but is still a sweet lens in its own right. Remember also that 24 equals 38.4 mm on your camera so it is not that wide, and the 17 will be 27.2 which is usually plenty wide, if that is what you are looking for.
I do not know where you live, but if it was close by I could let you come over and try the 17-40 f4L, and the 24-70 f2.8L for a few shots on your body to see which you like. (sorry, don't have the 24-105). I absolutely love my 24-70, but then again, for the money, and the wide angle, would not part with the 17-40 either.

[in00bz]

imho
save up & buy a 5d II
the 7d dosent worth it except if you want long video sessions

[Hillbillygirl]

imho
save up & buy a 5d II
the 7d dosent worth it except if you want long video sessions

If money was no object, sure go ahead and Buy 5D MkII. Then you will also have to buy new glass, as what Bol Ray has now will not work on Full frame. You are talking many thousands of dollars here.
The 7D is a beautiful camera, and works very well in high ISO situations also.( I am speaking from personal experience). It is not on par with 5D for studio work IMO, (just because of crop, not quality of pics), but that being said, there are many Pro's using this body in studio. Don't believe it, try checking out the Canon Forums. (Glamour & Nudes section)
Only downside is, either one of these cameras will want to use "L" quality glass to get good results, that is why I would suggest the investment in glass first.

On another note, I see you now have your location up as India, so I guess trying out my lenses is out of question eh Bol Ray? Did you finally decide on which glass, or still debating?

[in00bz]

+1 for the glass advice

[asnow]

Do you really need the speed and light gathering of the 24-70 or is it lust? Remember with the 24-105 you have IS which is good for two stops of light gathering ability also, and it is much lighter to hang on the neck for awhile. They both have their advantages over each other in this respect.


I'm sort of in the same boat. I would love to upgrade my Rebel XSi (EOS 450D) to a 60D or 7D. I've found that ISO 1600 on my Rebel body is very noisy so shooting in low light is not very good. However, as suggested I think I will concentrate on some good 'L' glass first before I upgrade the body. The two lenses that were suggested 24-70 f2.8 and 24-105 IS are definitely two considerations. I've just reserved the 24-105 to rent for this weekend. Not a bad deal. As it is a long (3 day) weekend I get an extra day in the rental. For $25 I have it from 4pm on Friday to 11am on Tuesday.

[Hillbillygirl]

I'm sort of in the same boat. I would love to upgrade my Rebel XSi (EOS 450D) to a 60D or 7D. I've found that ISO 1600 on my Rebel body is very noisy so shooting in low light is not very good. However, as suggested I think I will concentrate on some good 'L' glass first before I upgrade the body. The two lenses that were suggested 24-70 f2.8 and 24-105 IS are definitely two considerations. I've just reserved the 24-105 to rent for this weekend. Not a bad deal. As it is a long (3 day) weekend I get an extra day in the rental. For $25 I have it from 4pm on Friday to 11am on Tuesday.

Now that there is an excellent deal. I am sure you will have loads of fun with it. It is about the best walk-around lens going IMO. Light, sharp, and IS to boot. If it is so great, why don't I have it? I have a 17-40f4, 24-70f2.8, 70-200f2.8, so it just does not fit in-between anything I already have. If I did not own the 24-70f2.8 "brick", I would be all over it. Have fun this weekend Asnow and show us your results.