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theantiquetiger
06-06-2013, 06:24 PM
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/8971852771_d291f3b8e9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8971852771/)
morgan tree1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8971852771/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2845/8973396598_fe844897bf_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8973396598/)
morgan swingA (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8973396598/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2827/8973048720_76bf99a424_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8973048720/)
maddy swing1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8973048720/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5326/8971981715_45f2a83461_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8971981715/)
maddy tree1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8971981715/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8553/8974334010_65ac6024e9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974334010/)
maddy swing2a (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974334010/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

theantiquetiger
06-06-2013, 10:21 PM
OK, who can save #'s 2 & 5 for me, since I spent $60 getting their hair done and $30 to get to where we took the pictures.

I can email the RAWs to you

theantiquetiger
06-06-2013, 11:47 PM
I tried again, a little better

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8278/8974786858_8b0f182cb0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974786858/)
maddy swing new1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974786858/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7287/8974786320_d81bde98ca_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974786320/)
morgan tree new (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974786320/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3671/8974898488_159ec5c287_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974898488/)
morgan new swing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974898488/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Iguanasan
06-07-2013, 11:13 AM
I'm curious to understand what you think is wrong with these images since you are asking them to be saved. Also, I'm curious to know what they look like without any particular processing other than convert to JPG from RAW. There are things here that look a bit off to me but I'm not quite sure what is your vision for these images to maybe what looks off to me is just fine for you.

Marko
06-07-2013, 11:51 AM
Most of the images have colour casts and look over processed to my eye.
But each cast looks different even though the lighting was probably similar. There is no consistency (they are not all too blue, yellow etc.) and that's a problem for learning.
Even on your own monitor, you will surely be seeing casts in some of these images.

The overprocessing (to make the girls and scenery pop harder) isn't helping at all, it's hindering you imo.

shot 2 is my fave here. Love the gesturing of the feet. Colours are a bit better in that one.

I too want to see the images more natural (to advise you better) and I'd recommend you trying to render shots more naturally until you can consistently get good skin tones.
THen, feel free to play with punchier tools....but until then, these punchier tools are weighing you down. Hope that may help and hope it wasn't too harsh.

Is your monitor calibrated again?

theantiquetiger
06-07-2013, 04:36 PM
Here are the untouched images. I do know they are soft and WB is off. I am just pissed at myself.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5332/8980892032_e0225485ca_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980892032/)
raw jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980892032/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8124/8980882306_067312a948_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980882306/)
raw2 jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980882306/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2831/8980872164_ec4395602a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980872164/)
raw3 jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980872164/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5340/8980862902_5ec1b2e210_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980862902/)
raw4 jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980862902/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/8979658469_626476815f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8979658469/)
raw5 jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8979658469/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2892/8979646661_b48d6a9e6b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8979646661/)
raw6 jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8979646661/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Runmonty
06-07-2013, 07:36 PM
I am with Marko on this. The colour cast is obviously the major issue (as you worked out) and they do look little too processed to me.


OK, who can save #'s 2 & 5 for me, since I spent $60 getting their hair done and $30 to get to where we took the pictures.

I can email the RAWs to you

AT - I am more than happy to look processing issues any time you want, and also dont mind at all doing it, but I am also very conscious of getting you comfortable with doing it yourself. I find the only way to learn all this stuff is to try it and try it again. So if you are up it for it this is what I would do.

If it were mine I would go back to the original raw and start again. Firstly beacuase you have the white dresses I would set the WB by using the neutral colour picker on the white of the dress (not by using the presets or sliders). I think this will give a more natural result. Try a couple of different areas on the white dress if you dont like the first result. To be honest I dont think they need much more processing than that. Maybe look at a levels or curves adjustment (start off with auto and see what it does), perhaps a slight sharpening, and maybe VERY SUBTLE vignette or burning of the edges (so that someone looking it without seeing the original wouldn't even notice).

I think if you do that you may have some really lovely shots of the girls. I love the set up, particularly the swing shots.

Marko
06-07-2013, 11:46 PM
Nice to see the set of RAWS - they all have a similar cast so if you follow a corrective workflow on 1 image, all images should correct in a very similar fashion.

Key Question at this point - How do those raw files look on your particular monitor? What colour cast do they show, or do they look good?

If they look good.....then I'd suggest your monitor needs serious calibration.

If you see a cast then RM suggested a wonderful recipe for neutralizing that cast.

Maybe try 1 shot and see if you can neutralize it with that recipe. Imo these strong images are well worth correcting. I too really dig those swing shots.

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 12:09 AM
They all have that yellow cast to it (missed WB). The first ones in this thread have that strange neon green glow in the background. My biggest problem here (other than I missed the shot with sharpness) is when I start editing, I adjust and adjust until I have no clue where I started. I still have the original RAW images, but not sure where to go with them.

Somebody on another forum did this pretty quickly, so I know they can be saved, just don't know how. Like I said in my "hitting a golf ball" thread, it doesn't take practice, it takes correct practice. If you practice it wrong all the time, you will never learn the correct way.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=651957&stc=1&d=1370644476

JAS_Photo
06-08-2013, 02:30 AM
I have to say even with the yellowish cast, I prefer the second set of images by far. The girls look very natural and sweet in them.


17266

Took this into LR, did just a quick adjustment to the white balance as described by Runmounty, a little bit of vibrance and clarity, a very light vignette and took it into Elements to do just a quick sweep of some debris on the ground. Just a real quick edit.

The images themselves, are awesome A.T., it's just on the processing that you panic and get carried away. :)

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 07:05 AM
How is this?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/8985742286_46d6539004_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8985742286/)
morgan swing final (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8985742286/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2837/8984688657_ac64280592_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8984688657/)
maddy swing final (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8984688657/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Marko
06-08-2013, 10:14 AM
jas's version looks more natural than yours at....though these are much better than the originals.

Here's a strict protocol to follow :)

What program(s) are you using? Please answer this question.

IMO, to correct this here and now forever...u should only be using 1 program.
I'd like to see the skin tones and the faces look natural. Once this is solved, feel to enhance in any way you want - so for this exercise, No pluggins, filters, actions or fancy stuff. I can see fancy stuff in these 2 latest images.

You want to get to the root of the problem, not confound the issue with too much software/filtration.

You do need to practise in the right way as you know but now this practise is at the computer and you need to find a workflow....that works.....Morgan's face looks airbrushed and rendered by some pluggin....we need to see it plain. We want to teach you to fish, all you need is a manual rod and a reel, even though the temptation of motorized fishing glam is everywhere.

I'd go back again to this image and neutralize the cast in the way RM suggested. (or any other way that people use to neutralize casts).

Look for an area that should be white with detail (maybe the bow on the head). Remove the cast only on your daughter so that her skin looks natural and real. Don't worry about the environment, just your daughter's skin.

Outline your exact steps and the program you used and post your result.

Just do 1 image, the same image Morgan image and post that 1 image.

Hope that may help

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 03:04 PM
What program(s) are you using? Please answer this question.

IMO, to correct this here and now forever...u should only be using 1 program.

Outline your exact steps and the program you used and post your result.

Just do 1 image, the same image Morgan image and post that 1 image.


Her are the steps I used on Morgan's image I posted last:

In DPP - converted from RAW to TIF (because of the darkening with transferring from DDP to LR if left in RAW)

In LR4.2 - set WB like RM said to do with an area on the dress (I didn't know I could do this). It took a few tries to find one that looked natural (IMO)

- Did some cropping and leveling (because the swing was not hanging straight)

- Used graduated Sharpening filter horizontally from just below the elbows to just above her head

- Used graduated exposure filter (4x) above/below/each side to darken background

- Lowered over all green saturation a little / raised over all clarity a little / raised & lowered whites/shadows/blacks etc (I forget exact)

- Did a little cloning around feet to clean up leaves/etc

- Did a slight dark vignetting

- saved file as JPG

In Portrait Professional

- Ran image through to sharpen the eyes and saved as different file

In GIMP

- Cut eyes out of Portrait Pro and pasted on saved image from LR

- Did an unmask filter to sharpen over all sharpening

(I know I have forgotten a few over all steps, but they were minor)

I will start back over with Morgan's image above and work only in LR (I will even use a RAW image from DPP, not converted)

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 03:51 PM
OK here is step by step on image below using RAW in LR4.2

- set WB to her left side of dress
- Exp +0.36
- Cropped/leveled
- Contrast -20
- Highlights -40
- Shadows -14
- Whites +40
- Blacks -2
- Clarity +2
- Vibrancy -10
- Saturation +14
- Sharpness Grad filter (vertical) hand to hand +70
- Exposure Grad filters left/right sides -1.33
- Brush whiten teeth/eyes
- Tone curve Highlights +26
- Tone curve Lights +11
- Tone curve Darks -20
- Tone curve Shadows -1
- Green Hue -20
- Green Saturation -56
- Green Luminance -29
- Sharpness Brush on face +70
- Masking Slider +60
- Exposure brush on face +0.51
- Sharpness Brush on eyes +100
- Iris Enhance Brush
- Skin Soften Brush on face
- Lightroom preset PUNCH
- Lightroom preset Sharpen face

(***After posting this about an hour ago and studying it more, this is what I see***)
- her face seems a little under exposed, reddish and has a slight green cast under her chin
- I love the detail in her dress but could use some kind of ironing(the best I have achieved so far IMO)
- I like the skin tones on her arms (esp her left bicep) . You have to remember, down here in Louisiana, our summer started 2 months ago, we are all tan now

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/8988226361_49910c582d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8988226361/)
step by step morgan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8988226361/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Marko
06-08-2013, 05:20 PM
Now we are getting somewhere.

This is the level of precision required.
My first instinct is that no wonder you are confounded - that's a heck of a lot of processing.
To learn better, imo, you need to cut down on all that processing immediately. like nearly all of it.

How can we get to see a natural image with all that stuff goin' on?

- Lightroom preset PUNCH - gotta stop that too - what is that?

No presets dude, no nuthin.
No exposure grad filters.
Do it with the basic sliders. That's how you develop a workflow

Your goal for this exercise is to use as few maneuvers as possible to remove the cast.

You should know straight up that green on the skin which is reflected from the grass, IS hard to correct, so it's not just you, don't feel bad or anything - it's a common challenge.

Use the basic tools in lightroom in this attached image. That's it. Feel free to to use the tools globally as well as selectively. You can use the adjustment brush.
Please note every maneuver.
Please post another version after that. (Remember to kill any presets).
If anyone has additional input, please we are all here to share and learn. My PP skills are a solid medium compared to many others around here.
Btw - this version you posted is the best so far.
But I think this will help AT, Best.

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 06:42 PM
Thanks Marko and everyone for the help!!!

I'm at work now, so will start up this project again in the morning. Let me say this, the image I posted this morning looks amazing on my iPhone. 1000x better than the one I posted this afternoon. Granted, this is on my iPhone and it is a lot smaller and compressed. If I could figure out how to obtain that look on full size image, I would be happy as a lark.

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 08:59 PM
I do have a stupid question:

How do I (or can I) color adjust with the brush instead of the global slider? If I just want to take some red out of her face without doing it globally, how is this done in LR?

JAS_Photo
06-08-2013, 10:38 PM
You can use your adjustment brush to "colour in" the area you want to work on and make your adjustment from there. This is a great tool for evening out exposure in a shot (aka dodging and burning) as well. ;)

theantiquetiger
06-08-2013, 11:31 PM
You can use your adjustment brush to "colour in" the area you want to work on and make your adjustment from there. This is a great tool for evening out exposure in a shot (aka dodging and burning) as well. ;)

I'm not sure I am following you here. I know how to add color with the brush. What I am wanting to do is selective color adjustments with the brush. Further down the tool pallette, there are sliders to adjust hue, saturation, and luminance for different colors (red, purple, green, yellow, etc). These sliders adjust globally. Can I turn down just the reds in her face only in lightroom? I want to turn down the red saturation just in her face without affecting anything else.

JAS_Photo
06-09-2013, 12:03 AM
It is not a technique I normally use but using the adjustment brush "colour in" (figuratively speaking that is, you just want to define the area to work with) the area that you want to adjust with all the adjustments set at "0" or neutral. You can you your temperture sliders to adjust your colour temperature and it will affect the "coloured" in area only. Or at the bottom left of the section is the word color and across from that on the right is a rectangle with an X on it. Click on that and you can adjust colour in just that previously defined area. Honestly, though, I think you are making this more complicated than it needs to be.

theantiquetiger
06-09-2013, 08:34 AM
OK, lets do this again. I spent 12 hours at work last night watching video after video on LR4 portrait edits.

(***edit - I realized I lost some purple in the flowers and belt of the dress. That should be easily fixed***)

Newest edit

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/8994497957_41a01b13cb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8994497957/)
mo mo swing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8994497957/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

a view of some of the other tries

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/8985742286_46d6539004_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8985742286/)
morgan swing final (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8985742286/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/8988226361_49910c582d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8988226361/)
step by step morgan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8988226361/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Marko
06-09-2013, 09:53 AM
The adjustment brush (which you should have come across after 12 hours of video) - let's you 'paint in' adjustments on particular areas of the image.
Shot 1 is best so far in the new edits, but it still looks red to me.....and you didn't follow the advice. You didn't outline your steps...
and I see other programs at work here...and I'm just gonna say it... a child imo, doesn't need an airbrushed look.
You children are gorgeous AT. Both could be models. The airbrush (especially in new edit #2) makes them look UNchildlike, like they had too much plastic surgery or something.

I can't comment further on these images until I see a natural one using only LR and outlined steps.

theantiquetiger
06-09-2013, 03:28 PM
The adjustment brush (which you should have come across after 12 hours of video) - let's you 'paint in' adjustments on particular areas of the image.
Shot 1 is best so far in the new edits, but it still looks red to me.....and you didn't follow the advice. You didn't outline your steps...
and I see other programs at work here...and I'm just gonna say it... a child imo, doesn't need an airbrushed look.
You children are gorgeous AT. Both could be models. The airbrush (especially in new edit #2) makes them look UNchildlike, like they had too much plastic surgery or something.

I can't comment further on these images until I see a natural one using only LR and outlined steps.

Marko, you are confused. The three images I posted this morning, only the first one is a new edition. The other two are just re-post of my tries yesterday to compare without scrolling everywhere. I did like you said and stayed above the Tone Curve in the palette. No presets, global sliders, etc

theantiquetiger
06-09-2013, 04:01 PM
I can't comment further on these images until I see a natural one using only LR and outlined steps.

OK, I went back to the drawing board this afternoon. I stayed away from her face other that whitening the teeth and a little work on the eyes

Steps only in Lightroom. I stayed only in the area of the palette you showed me except for a slight vignette and purple adjustment for the flowers in the dress One thing I did not do in this edit that I did in this mornings edit. I took the Skin Softening brush and "ironed out the dress" around her knees.

- selected WB
- Highlights -55
- Shadows +26
- Whites -2
- Blacks +10
- Clarity -5
- Vibrancy -17
- Saturation +7
- Purple Luminance -100 (to bring out detail in the dress)
- Whiten Teeth/eyes brush
- Sharpen iris brush w/ a light blue +93
- Clone tool around feet
- Crop/Level
- Vignette

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3767/8999410802_dba5d20594_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8999410802/)
mo mo swing2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8999410802/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Marko
06-09-2013, 06:24 PM
It's looking more natural at each edit. My apologies on the confusion.

Best version so far. It looks quite good on my box. How does it look on your computer? (and is your computer calibrated?)

Something to keep in mind is that all the colours are intimately related. Move 1 colour and you move its opposite as well.

That purple luminance deal - was that a global edit?
I'm guessing yes. It should not have been because the purple is located only in the dress.
Her bow is medium purple now - it was closer to white in the last edit. (isn't that bow white in reality?)

My general workflow is that I use the sliders to get most of the picture (which usually includes my focal point) looking good on a global level.
Then I use the adjustment brushes and hone in on particular areas.

Trying to correct local areas with global edits is a surefire way to make yourself go batty.

theantiquetiger
06-09-2013, 06:38 PM
I didn't notice the purpling of the bow. I did do a global color on the purple because I didn't think it affected anything other than the flowers and belt. I can easily lower the lums on the bow. Like I said in my last post, I also used the skin softening brush to "iron" the dress around the knees. I will adjust the bow back to white with the ironed dress and call this on done.

The thing learned most from all those videos last night about portraits, I was going in the complete opposite direction on my clarity, saturation, and vibrance.

I am trying to unlearn the bad habit hat every image needs the clarity and saturation increased. I was destroying the images.


Here it is, closes the book on this chapter

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3673/9001045538_fa8681bf62_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/9001045538/)
mo mo swing final (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/9001045538/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8124/8980882306_067312a948.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980882306/)
raw2 jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8980882306/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3671/8974898488_159ec5c287.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974898488/)
morgan new swing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8974898488/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/8985742286_46d6539004.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8985742286/)
morgan swing final (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8985742286/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/8988226361_49910c582d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8988226361/)
step by step morgan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8988226361/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/8994497957_41a01b13cb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8994497957/)
mo mo swing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/theantiquetiger/8994497957/) by Theantiquetiger (http://www.flickr.com/people/theantiquetiger/), on Flickr

Iguanasan
06-09-2013, 08:18 PM
Woah! I miss a day or two and all heck breaks loose! :D

It looks like Marko has this one well in hand with you. That last edit looks very sweet. What a difference in all your different attempts. I guess that's why I don't get into as much trouble as I don't know how to use all that stuff so I'll I ever do is some white balance and contrast adjustment, saturation, and a bit of unsharp mask. If I went through the all those steps I'd get lost.

Marko
06-10-2013, 12:48 AM
Last version looks quite good AT. I still think that purple luminance is mucking with the rest of the image though.

I'd try this workflow on the other images in this set at this point, but I would not work on details globally. Details should be controlled with adjustment brush imo.