my boy

[darkness]

this was taken outside the seattle aquarium.
Canon 50D with 18-200 IS@50mm f8 iso 100 1/250's

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee161/senorbutts/IMG_0288-1.jpg

[Mad Aussie]

This has a nice feel about it. I like the lighting very much although the face looks a tad dark. Be nice to see the eyes pop out a bit more.
Moving him to the left and shooting just a bit more along the railing might have created a nice leading line for the shot as well.

[reijo]

I have been following the posts here for quite a while and notice, especially with portraits, there is a tendency to make stuff pop out especially eyes.
Then, I started examining many paintings from the Renaissance period. In them many of the faces are shrouded in shadow making it difficult to see features well.
I was told once by a good photographer to listen to artists and not photographers because the former know much more about the use of light and dark.
Is this worth at least a serious discussion here?

This photo in my humble opinion is a good example. The dark eyes, the shadowed face, the darker skin create an emotion that is far superior to one that would light up the eyes.
Reijo

[Marko]

Agree with MA's critique here.



I have been following the posts here for quite a while and notice, especially with portraits, there is a tendency to make stuff pop out especially eyes.
Then, I started examining many paintings from the Renaissance period. In them many of the faces are shrouded in shadow making it difficult to see features well. I was told once by a good photographer to listen to artists and not photographers because the former know much more about the use of light and dark. Is this worth at least a serious discussion here?

This photo in my humble opinion is a good example. The dark eyes, the shadowed face, the darker skin create an emotion that is far superior to one that would light up the eyes.
Reijo

Damn straight it's worth some discussion. Personally, I eat this stuff up.
Where to start???

First off - let's see what the photographer is talking about...what painting(s) is he she referring to? - Let's see them or at least 1 or 2. VERY difficult to discuss this concept without seeing some examples. If that photographer is your friend ask him/her for the name of one or 2 paintings so we can show them here. If memory serves - many but not all Renaissance (a fairly broad term) indoor portraits have dark eyes - It's based on the natural lighting they were trying to emulate. Outdoors, faces are rendered naturally, again based on existing light.

IMO - your photographer friend is just talking. You can't compare the above portrait with the lighting in a renaissance painting. the goal (or one of the goals) of portraits like the one above is normally to make the subject look good. That's not the goal of most Renaissance paintings, especially the indoor ones with the dark eyes.

I will say this...If you are looking to create very dramatic portraits (for your own artistic purpose), then yes, study the lighting that they used in paintings 500 years ago before cameras were invented. If you are looking to study composition - rock on, painters were born and bred on composition and have volumes to teach photographers. But if you looking to flatter a subject (which is what most subjects want), then you'll need more modern lighting techniques or a different painting style to emulate.

JMO - tag - you're it.:D

[edbayani11]

this is a very good photograph of your son. it may be a little dark but it sets the mood. by observing his attire, jacket and cap you know it is cold. you can see in his eyes the confidence of a young boy. there is minimal color and adds to the cold mood. i like the highlight on the right side. it shows the texture of his cap and jacket.
i like this photograph because you can see the rapport between the photographer and the boy.

[JAS_Photo]

I like this photograph but I have to agree that the face is a little dark. I think when someone refers to the 'dark' lighting used by the Rennaisance Masters they are most often refering to Rembrandt lighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rembrandt_lighting). To me that is not a type of ligting commonly used with children except for situations where the photographer wants to portray real drama or hardship perhaps as in a photojournalist who goes to a poor country and photographs poverty or illness or perhaps the ravages of war as they affect the children. Anyway, that is my take on it.

[Mad Aussie]

I have been following the posts here for quite a while and notice, especially with portraits, there is a tendency to make stuff pop out especially eyes.
Then, I started examining many paintings from the Renaissance period. In them many of the faces are shrouded in shadow making it difficult to see features well.
I was told once by a good photographer to listen to artists and not photographers because the former know much more about the use of light and dark.
Is this worth at least a serious discussion here?

This photo in my humble opinion is a good example. The dark eyes, the shadowed face, the darker skin create an emotion that is far superior to one that would light up the eyes.
Reijo
I agree ... in some cases. But they need to be cases where the shadow and light are very strongly opposed to each other which is not the case in this photo.
I'm not one that needs to see eyes in every portrait by a long shot. But if I do see eyes and they are not in strong shadow then I find it far more appealing to see them as clearly as is possible.
Not sure a painting from so long ago is totally relevant in today's modern photography but todays photography is so wide in it's range of compositions and techniques that anything is acceptable to somebody depending on it's purpose.

[darkness]

Thank you for the moments and tips. I have a question. Since it was sunny that day and the sun was shinning more or less to the side and behind him should have used the flash to "light up" the face area to get more detail or how else would I go about bringing out his eyes more?

[Mad Aussie]

Thank you for the moments and tips. I have a question. Since it was sunny that day and the sun was shinning more or less to the side and behind him should have used the flash to "light up" the face area to get more detail or how else would I go about bringing out his eyes more?
I would have used a flash myself ... but also a reflector might have been more subtle.

[darkness]

Thanks MA I will have to add that on my to buy list.

[Mad Aussie]

Thanks MA I will have to add that on my to buy list.
Do you guys get the internal collapsible windshield shades over there? If so ... I use those and simply cut them down the middle giving me two separate collapsible reflectors for about US$10 instead of spending US$30 - $50

[F8&Bthere]

Do you guys get the internal collapsible windshield shades over there? If so ... I use those and simply cut them down the middle giving me two separate collapsible reflectors for about US$10 instead of spending US$30 - $50

Or buy the 5-in-1 reflectors on ebay. I really think they are the same ones some camera shops sell for around $70, but on ebay I think you can find them for well under $20 delivered. Now, trying to figure out how to collapse them back into their little round carrying bag is another story.... think you need cirque du soleil training for that feat....just don't do it in public until you've figured out the trick.

[Mad Aussie]

Now, trying to figure out how to collapse them back into their little round carrying bag is another story.... think you need cirque du soleil training for that feat....just don't do it in public until you've figured out the trick.
Easy ... start with one hand up the right way and the other already twisted under.

[reijo]

The photographer who gave that quote was non other than Brenda Tharp.
I would not suggest for a moment that she is "just talking". One of the comments she made in her book has stuck with me. She had given her photographs to a pro to examine and he told her they were very good but that there was nothing of herself in them.
In the photo of the lad we are commenting on, I feel the photographer has something of himself in that shot.

Re portraits. In many cases you want your subject to "look their best" especially if it is a wedding or for a magazine or a customer. I can understand that. Thus, using cloning to remove spots, softening skin texture etc are useful tools. However, I would say that setting a mood and using effective shadow and light to show that is very important
The Renaissance painter I was referring to is Vermeer but Caravaggio's use of chiaroscuro is also a good example. Unfortunately it isn't possible to upload their paintings- at least not in my limited experience.
Reijo