Distasteful or art? (Warning - graphic photo)

[Siejones]

Look out something fluffy....for the masses!

http://www.thelightcanvas.com/forumpics/ca/IMG_5844_2.jpg

[Iguanasan]

Different points of view make the world go 'round. This is not one that I enjoy but there are people who do. While I don't find it distasteful or offensive, per se, I don't really see the point either. I guess I'm somewhat ambivalent as long as you found the dead body in nature. If you killed the rabbit just to take this shot (which I'm sure you didn't) then I would be quite offended.

[Mad Aussie]

In my opinion I think for shots of something morbid like this you need to be far more creative, otherwise it's just a snapshot of fur and bones and doesn't have any engaging point to it's being.

[AcadieLibre]

I think anything that represents death is not always morbid, just depends on the reason of the photograph. The photograph used here is neither morbid or well done. Nothing morbid about photographing death and some people may see it as an art form. I think historical and photojournalistic photos of death, mayhem and destruction are invaluable and are needed. To use death as a form of art, if you want to do it make sure it has some artistic merit not just limbs tossed on grass. This should have been in the critique section as you are asking for opinions on your photo.

I am not sure the point of the photo, the angle, placement, colours are not working in anyway and doesn't say anything, until you mentioned death it would not have crossed my mind looks more like an amputation photo than that of death. I also think you should put a warning when doing these shots, like I do when I post photos that others might find objectionable, I would prefer not to but this board caters to all age groups and people who are maybe not comfortable with this type of photo, I do it as courtesy and would suggest in the future you might do the same.

[Siejones]

Wow so many people offended it seems.

Not very creative (how creative can you get with such subject matter without being disrespectful?), Not well done? Almost attacks and you say your not offended?

Would you say the same of this

http://www.cartermuseum.org/collections/porter/collection.php?asn=P1990-55-13-1&mcat=2&scat=6

or this?

http://www.cartermuseum.org/collections/porter/collection.php?asn=P1990-54-21-1&mcat=2&scat=8

The compostion and colour worked for me or I would not have posted it. The word "distasteful" if the title was enough to warn people of the contents don't you think?

If it's that bad for you all I will remove the post.

[Mad Aussie]

I certainly wasn't offended by the image at all.

You shouldn't be offended by peoples comments either SJ ... you asked for opinions and you got them. If we simply told you what you wanted to hear rather than the truth then you might as well go into your bathroom and talk to yourself in the mirror.

I think the point myself and AL were making (he'll correct if I'm wrong) is that 'we feel' (our opinions not necessarily the only viewpoints in the world) is that if you are going to shoot graphic subjects then there needs to be more structure and creative work happening. There needs to be a reason to shoot it at all.

I've liked several of your photos beforehand, but not this one, and there will be others I will not like either. And if you ask me to comment on those ones I will again tell you I don't like them. Just as others do for me. I learn that way. I learn that not everything I think looks good, looks good to others. I learn different ways to do things. I learn more about other peoples perspectives and how I can appeal to them. You could do the same mate.

[Marko]

I am not offended in any way by this BUT just as a courtesy, for sensitive people (a group which I include myself in) the wording 'graphic image' is best included in the thread title. (I'm taking the liberty here and will add it)

The shock value of the photo imo is the most salient aspect.

It's not in the critique section so I won't critique it.

Thx - Marko

[Siejones]

I certainly wasn't offended by the image at all.

You shouldn't be offended by peoples comments either SJ ... you asked for opinions and you got them. If we simply told you what you wanted to hear rather than the truth then you might as well go into your bathroom and talk to yourself in the mirror.

I think the point myself and AL were making (he'll correct if I'm wrong) is that 'we feel' (our opinions not necessarily the only viewpoints in the world) is that if you are going to shoot graphic subjects then there needs to be more structure and creative work happening. There needs to be a reason to shoot it at all.

I've liked several of your photos beforehand, but not this one, and there will be others I will not like either. And if you ask me to comment on those ones I will again tell you I don't like them. Just as others do for me. I learn that way. I learn that not everything I think looks good, looks good to others. I learn different ways to do things. I learn more about other peoples perspectives and how I can appeal to them. You could do the same mate.

I understand how critique works and have taken much and will no doubt do so in the future but the replys seemed a bit of blatent rubbishing. I wonder if they would have been so harsh with a less graphic subject?

When giving critique some important few words are "in my opinion". If your going to give a point of view you must inform everyone that you don't blatently think you are right and there is no alternative. Photography is as subjective and music, movies and just about any other artform and you must be careful you are not seeming to dictate your point of view.

We can all learn from critique but you must remember that the poster is the artist and when posting he/she has posted the image they wanted to show. The colours, PP, composition were all chosen by them because thats what they chose by artistic preference. You must remember this when giving good critique.

[Siejones]

I am not offended in any way by this BUT just as a courtesy, for sensitive people (a group which I include myself in) the wording 'graphic image' is best included in the thread title. (I'm taking the liberty here and will add it)

The shock value of the photo imo is the most salient aspect.

It's not in the critique section so I won't critique it.

Thx - Marko

I really didn't think this could potentialy be that offensive. If I had I would not have posted it.

I am beginning to think it was a mistake to do so.

[Mad Aussie]

When giving critique some important few words are "in my opinion". If your going to give a point of view you must inform everyone that you don't blatently think you are right and there is no alternative. Photography is as subjective and music, movies and just about any other artform and you must be careful you are not seeming to dictate your point of view.

We can all learn from critique but you must remember that the poster is the artist and when posting he/she has posted the image they wanted to show. The colours, PP, composition were all chosen by them because thats what they chose by artistic preference. You must remember this when giving good critique.
You asked what WE think. Not whether we care what you think. You got exactly what you asked for. The truth as we saw it. There is no right or wrong here ... just different tastes of your image.

AND, if you re-read my first comment which you can see is NOT edited in any way ... my first words were ... "In my opinion "

My opinion NOW ... is that you were too easily offended and have gone onto the defensive after hearing things you didn't want to hear.

Here's a tip ... if you can't handle what others think (which is only their subjective opinion anyhow) ... don't ask for their opinions.


I looked at those examples you put up ... dead gull , dead horse. Both black and white to convey the death more creatively and both taken from a more creative angle. Again, just my opinion ... but again ... you asked!

[Siejones]

You asked what WE think. Not whether we care what you think. You got exactly what you asked for. The truth as we saw it. There is no right or wrong here ... just different tastes of your image.

AND, if you re-read my first comment which you can see is NOT edited in any way ... my first words were ... "In my opinion "

My opinion NOW ... is that you were too easily offended and have gone onto the defensive after hearing things you didn't want to hear.

Here's a tip ... if you can't handle what others think (which is only their subjective opinion anyhow) ... don't ask for their opinions.


I looked at those examples you put up ... dead gull , dead horse. Both black and white to convey the death more creatively and both taken from a more creative angle. Again, just my opinion ... but again ... you asked!

Now we are getting offensive!

Yes black and white would make all the difference :headslap: and nothing would have been said then. They are both from above...how's that more creative than my above shot? The slight angle.....oooohh I see

Nevermind....

[AcadieLibre]

You are taking what we are pointing out as offensive, it is not offensive to me I am not that sensitive but you need to take the whole of the forum community into consideration. You then post in show your photo and not in the critique section then ask for opinions, unlike Marko I am willing to oblige. If your going to get so easily offended you are right you might have been mistaken but not for the reasons you think. Post in the critique section if you want critique, be considerate of others and take critique as it is meant to be, critiquing your work. It does not shock, nor is it morbid, as I mentioned in my other post just a poorly done shot. Anyway all I will say on this, if you plan on being a photographer you better be able to take far more harsh criticisms than we have said.

[Mad Aussie]

Now we are getting offensive!

Yes black and white would make all the difference :headslap: and nothing would have been said then.

Nevermind....
You have a thing with 'offensive' it seems. Obviously (in my opinion), you are beyond reasonable discussion and have chosen to elevate the discussion to places it need not have gone.

If you come here with preconceived views and inflexibility towards your images then why ask anyhow about them?

And making your image black and white may have helped a little but would not have satisfied my view that your image lacked creative composition.

[Siejones]

You are taking what we are pointing out as offensive, it is not offensive to me I am not that sensitive but you need to take the whole of the forum community into consideration. You then post in show your photo and not in the critique section then ask for opinions, unlike Marko I am willing to oblige. If your going to get so easily offended you are right you might have been mistaken but not for the reasons you think. Post in the critique section if you want critique, be considerate of others and take critique as it is meant to be, critiquing your work. It does not shock, nor is it morbid, as I mentioned in my other post just a poorly done shot. Anyway all I will say on this, if you plan on being a photographer you better be able to take far more harsh criticisms than we have said.

I asked for an opinion on wether such a morbid subject could be distastful or art using the picture as an example. At which point did I ask for critique?

If I want to become a photographer? Wow now we are being offensive. Cheeky! Presumably I am a beginner compared to you? Maybe you should compare my work to some of your own.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/siejones/

I already have and have made my conclusions.

[Siejones]

You have a thing with 'offensive' it seems. Obviously (in my opinion), you are beyond reasonable discussion and have chosen to elevate the discussion to places it need not have gone.

If you come here with preconceived views and inflexibility towards your images then why ask anyhow about them?

And making your image black and white may have helped a little but would not have satisfied my view that your image lacked creative composition.

Yes the slight angle change the "master" photographer eliot porter chose would have made all the difference.

Yes I am upset and offended because what I am hearing is just feable excuses for utter nonsence. Of coarse you wouldn't slate a renowned master photographers work but your excuses for comparsions are very very weak.

[Mad Aussie]

I was going to try diffuse the situation now but then I went back to post 1 to confirm your wording. A childish reaction sits there now.

VERY nice shot of a squirrel though.

And I never said Elliots work impressed me. It doesn't.

[Barefoot]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/BarefootImages/Risized%20Images/1974.gif

[Siejones]

I was going to try diffuse the situation now but then I went back to post 1 to confirm your wording. A childish reaction sits there now.

VERY nice shot of a squirrel though.

And I never said Elliots work impressed me. It doesn't.

A childish reaction or an attempt to stop the escalation of offended people? Your attempt to diffuse is to point out I am childish. This is just getting better and better.

[Mad Aussie]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/BarefootImages/Risized%20Images/1974.gif
Put your popcorn away Barefoot ;) I'm done wasting effort on someone who thinks they have nothing to learn and want to be abusive about it. I'd be better off going and making a website called www.onlymyopinionmatters.com for guys like SJ there.

[Siejones]

Put your popcorn away Barefoot ;) I'm done wasting effort on someone who thinks they have nothing to learn and want to be abusive about it. I'd be better off going and making a website called www.onlymyopinionmatters.com for guys like SJ there.

At what point did I say that my opinion was all that mattered? Please note who gets offensive first and how much more offensive they are. This post as an example.

I give my opinions in return and you don't like it so go on the attack.

Well considering you live on this forum it's probably not wise not make an enemy of you so that's pretty much it for me on here I suppose. Shame really there are not many good forum's out there. It only takes one to ruin it for everyone.

[Mad Aussie]

Oh don't hold back on my account SJ. Trust me ... marko would (and will if he feels the need) reprimand me as quickly as the next person. No one is irreplaceable here.

I haven't attacked you in any way and you saying it, doesn't make it true seeing as my unedited comments are all up there for all to see. The viewers can see I tried to be reasonable and took time to explain myself. They can also see how you chose to twist my words for own viewpoint. I simply responded to try to further explain my viewpoint.

All this because you asked an opinion and didn't wish to be open about it. 3 opinions actually. 3 opinions out of however many frequent the forums here. Not sure reacting so quickly to 3 opinions is very productive but that's your call.

I didn't say I was trying to diffuse ... I said I wouldn't bother after seeing your childish reaction. If you choose to act like this I'm happy enough to oblige as you've seen.

In the end though if you feel your image is good then fine. Use it or sell it or whatever it is you intend to do with such an image. It's your image. I've sold images people thought were crap and the purchaser thought them wonderful. 'Subjective' as you said.

But don't come here and ask for an opinion and then get huffy because someone didn't like your pet or agree with your view.

[Mad Aussie]

If anyone viewing wishes to tell me I'm out of line here etc then PLEASE feel free to do so either right here in the thread or in a pm.

I'm more than happy to pull my head in or apologize to SJ for anything I should not have said.

I, in no way, intended to offend him and, like the 2 other opinions given, were just trying to answer his question and give him the feedback I thought he sought.

[Siejones]

Oh don't hold back on my account SJ. Trust me ... marko would (and will if he feels the need) reprimand me as quickly as the next person. No one is irreplaceable here.

I haven't attacked you in any way and you saying it, doesn't make it true seeing as my unedited comments are all up there for all to see. The viewers can see I tried to be reasonable and took time to explain myself. They can also see how you chose to twist my words for own viewpoint. I simply responded to try to further explain my viewpoint.

All this because you asked an opinion and didn't wish to be open about it. 3 opinions actually. 3 opinions out of however many frequent the forums here. Not sure reacting so quickly to 3 opinions is very productive but that's your call.

I didn't say I was trying to diffuse ... I said I wouldn't bother after seeing your childish reaction. If you choose to act like this I'm happy enough to oblige as you've seen.

In the end though if you feel your image is good then fine. Use it or sell it or whatever it is you intend to do with such an image. It's your image. I've sold images people thought were crap and the purchaser thought them wonderful. 'Subjective' as you said.

But don't come here and ask for an opinion and then get huffy because someone didn't like your pet or agree with your view.

You havn't been offensive? Maybe you should go back and read your own posts a bit slower and use a bit of empathy.

Please re-read the previously posted bit about how I was not asking for critique and save me saying it again.

The fact that you are a such a prominant user of the forum for a long time and no doubt with many friends further posts by self would be asking for trouble.

Anyway save me getting me anymore upset with this I will bid you all farewell and make this the last time I visit the forum.

[Michaelaw]

Look out something fluffy....for the masses!

http://www.thelightcanvas.com/forumpics/ca/IMG_5844_2.jpg

I didn't get to see the morbid distasteful image but the replacement is just too freaking cute! That has to be the cutest little furball I've ever seen!!!

[Mad Aussie]

I didn't get to see the morbid distasteful image
It was really nothing worse than a pair of chicken drumsticks M.
I've seen self portraits of you that repulsed me more!! http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/home/smf/Smileys/classic/biglaugha.gif Now THAT'S the sort of thing that needs a warning!!! http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/home/smf/Smileys/classic/hihi.gif

[Michaelaw]

Flood forward tubes and arm torpedoes....:yell:

[Mad Aussie]

Flood forward tubes and arm torpedoes....:yell:
Don't get upset ... it's just MY OPINION ;)

[Marko]

I hate to see anyone go because I love the variety of people and their photographs. Although this thread is somewhat heated I don't feel it crossed 'the line' or I would have closed it or deleted it when I saw it. At this point in the thread some posts are close to the line.

At this point though and especially since the original image was removed, this thread has run its course and will be closed.

I certainly hope you do not leave our forum Siejones. Although I wasn't crazy about the original image (for creative reasons mostly) I really enjoy your photography and have seen bunches of excellent images from you. Heck I even picked one out as my fave of the month.

I love this new gopher image btw. Best - Marko