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Michaelaw
07-14-2009, 12:15 AM
Photography is starting to get a tad repetitive for me and Iím starting to try and evaluate why that should be. For three years now Iíve gone out into the world with my trusty Olympus cameras and taken a days worth of shots, picked the best, put them through the Photoshop mill and posted them to various sites. Somehow this isnít enough. Iím now fairly comfortable with a camera but I want to make statements with my work rather than just show happenstance images collected on various walks. Iím at a point I think where I want to design a shot. You can probably tell from reading some of my posts in this thread that Iím not entirely comfortable with the direction of the world in which I live, there is a lot more going on around us that we simply miss in our day to day consumerist, survival, fast food lifestyle. I take the rapid transit train downtown sometimes and am amazed at how people are connected to electronic devices, cel phones, ipods, portable gaming devices, we donít even seem to experience the transition from one place to another, it just becomes dead space in our lives that needs to be filled electronically by devices. I guess Iím sort of thinking out loud here but of late, I feel a need to take my observations and represent them photographically. Even my wildlife shots it occurs to me need revamping. Iíve got bucket loads of animals or birds doing nothing in particular, sure some of them are pretty but animals do stuff, they hunt, kill, survive, fight for territory and I just seem to get them posing like I paid them? YeahÖDefinitely thinking out loud here but I hope you get my meaning. I have to do more damn it! :D

Greg_Nuspel
07-14-2009, 09:02 AM
Thinking is dangerous it will separate you from the masses, soon you will become an individual with self expression. Go back to the flock and blend in before you are noticed for your unique talents.:clown:

I think what you are experiencing is what everyone who tries to express themselves goes through. I know I feel lost lots of the time and hope I can find the proper way to express myself. It's scary away from the flock because you are showing yourself to the world. Keep going down the path you are going and I am sure you will find the way.

kat
07-14-2009, 09:37 AM
I think that all the time. Shots that everyone finds wonderful..I find lacking something.

I think that is the artist in people. Nothing is every quite good enough.

casil403
07-14-2009, 11:23 AM
I feel a need to take my observations and represent them photographically. Even my wildlife shots it occurs to me need revamping. Iíve got bucket loads of animals or birds doing nothing in particular, sure some of them are pretty but animals do stuff, they hunt, kill, survive, fight for territory and I just seem to get them posing like I paid them? I have to do more damn it! :D

So get out there and do more and challenge yourself in the ways you want to damnit!
....that's the beauty about life...you can make/change it to be whatever you want it to be and photographically, you can do the same. :)

To paraphrase Gandhi here..."Be the change you wish to see in the world"

I'm practicing this in just about every aspect of my life right now and it feels pretty scary at times (Gawd, change always it isn't it?) but it also feels really good too! :highfive:

kurtdriver
07-14-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm not like other people, I know that from other areas of life, in which I'm often not interested in the same things other people are. This seems to manifest itself in photography as well. Even here on photography.ca, I see a picture of a bird and I am disappointed a bit, its just a bird. I'm with you Michael, animals do things, why can't that bird be pulling a grub from the ground? People do things too, A picture of a person just standing in front of the camera is not very interesting. Show that person doing something and you've made an interesting photo.


I want to make statements with my work rather than just show happenstance images collected on various walks. I’m at a point I think where I want to design a shot.
Why don't you give yourself a topic? Something like the monthly assignment would let you think about what you're doing. I keep thinking about heat, this month's assignment, and different ways of showing it.


You can probably tell from reading some of my posts in this thread that I’m not entirely comfortable with the direction of the world in which I live, there is a lot more going on around us that we simply miss in our day to day consumerist, survival, fast food lifestyle.

Can you show that? I'd love to see the pics.


I take the rapid transit train downtown sometimes and am amazed at how people are connected to electronic devices, cel phones, ipods, portable gaming devices, we don’t even seem to experience the transition from one place to another, it just becomes dead space in our lives that needs to be filled electronically by devices.
That sound like an interesting theme right there. That could be street photography or something planned with a model. Got a Kid? For a beginner I've got a lot of ideas, eh? Kurt

F8&Bthere
07-14-2009, 07:38 PM
I feel your pain....I think.
my blahs tend to go away when I a) travel b) realize I've made significant progress c) take a sabbatical or d) buy stuff
I think you should do like you said and "design a shot"
What kind of shot? I don't know.... I'm having a hard enough time getting my own creative juices flowing, and enthusiasm, now that other recent forum threads made me realize almost everything's overdone and cliche.
Kidding!

Michaelaw
07-25-2009, 07:09 PM
:clap: I'll take D....I'm selling the Olympus E-3, in fact my entire system. E-3 body, 14-45mm, 40-150mm, 70-300mm, 50mm macro, 1 fl50r flash, 3 fl36r flash.
I'll cure these doldrums yet :)

Mad Aussie
07-26-2009, 03:32 AM
Thinking is dangerous it will separate you from the masses, soon you will become an individual with self expression. Go back to the flock and blend in before you are noticed for your unique talents.:clown:
Hilarious ;)

Selling up M? What's the plan then?

Michaelaw
07-26-2009, 11:02 AM
Decided to get into the Nikon d700. If the Oly sells at a fair price I'll do it soon, if not, I'll keep the Oly for a rough and tumble system, save all my beans and get the Nikon for Xmas.

Mad Aussie
07-26-2009, 03:42 PM
Decided to get into the Nikon d700. If the Oly sells at a fair price I'll do it soon, if not, I'll keep the Oly for a rough and tumble system, save all my beans and get the Nikon for Xmas.
Nice!

Michaelaw
07-26-2009, 03:51 PM
Is it Xmas yet!! :D

Mad Aussie
07-26-2009, 03:52 PM
Sure ... why not! Merry Christmas M!

F8&Bthere
07-28-2009, 11:17 AM
Michaelaw- there has to be more to the system change than just a cure for the blues.... Can I ask what you feel is lacking with your current setup? Or are you just feeling the pull to full frame?

I fought off the full frame bug recently and now kinda proud of myself. I think I was one of many who would have been doing it for all the wrong reasons. So now when I have the urge to go full frame and get the max benefits of certain lenses etc, I pull out my....wait for it...35mm film camera! Saved me $3K+.

Michaelaw
07-28-2009, 03:21 PM
Though full frame is an attraction, it's not the main thrust behind my longing. The Olympus E-3 is a great camera that can deliver excellent results, on par with a d700 in my estimation. But I'm limited to ISO 1250 max. Low light demands flash. I'm starting to re evaluate my Nikon dream though as the lenses are out there price wise coupled with the fact that for a system I paid $4,800.00 for, the largest offer I've had is $1,500.00....Unacceptable! I am guilty of spur of the moment decision making, a personal flaw that has cost me much in the past. I'm now looking into faster lenses for the Olympus to see if I can get past the Noise issue. With the Nikon's I see noise at very high ISO but it looks close to film noise, the Olympus has a bad noise pattern and is prone to banding big time which is very frustrating. So I'm doing the research right now on the fastest lenses I can get to see If I can reach a compromise. As I said, the Olympus, in good light, is true performer with many innovations and qualities that are hard to find in other systems but the noise has to stop!!

PS...Though a Nikon would cure the photo blues for a spell, I realize, in time, the blues would return even if I got a D3x. That is a jellyware issue and zip to do with gear :)

kat
07-28-2009, 03:44 PM
I'd be in my glory if I could just get a camera that auto brackets.... I'm looking to upgrade too but have no clue what to get. I'll wait till that time..most likely be more options before that time comes :(

Greg_Nuspel
07-28-2009, 03:48 PM
Then you want a Hasselblad followed by a view camera with a scanning back and then after breaking your back you look at the newest point and shoot.......

Michaelaw
07-28-2009, 07:20 PM
Maybe I bitch too much but you tell me. my car in the underground low light. Shot at 3200 ISO using 50mmf2.0 (fastest lens I own)


(1) raw not post

http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/iso3200.jpg


(2) raw with post to clean noise

http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/iso3200post.jpg


Or this...Same lens, stereo is in a very poorly lit area. All these are shot raw.


(3) raw no post 3200 ISO

http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/isob3200.jpg


(4) Same image with enhanced blacks and noise reduction

http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/isob3200post.jpg


Tripod based ISO 100 same lens shows (Other than the fact I need to do some dusting) :) what I'm seeing the D700 do at ISO 5000, not quite as good but real close!


http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/iso100.jpg

The car shot had more light than the home theater ergo less noise. full on daylight @ ISO 3200 using a slowish 40-150mm give hardly any noise

http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/iso3200 lotsalight.jpg


I'd just like to be able to shoot the home theater shot at 3200 with little or no noise.

JAS_Photo
07-28-2009, 08:00 PM
For comparison's sake, here is a shot I took at folkfest with the D300 at 9:39 in the evening. Click on photo for the larger version. Raw photo no adjustments.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2494/3767346352_c8682738e4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jas_photos/3767346352/)

Camera: Nikon D300
Exposure: 0.013 sec (1/80)
Aperture: f/5.6
ISO Speed: 3200

Michaelaw
07-28-2009, 08:09 PM
I don't like you anymore!!!! :D

That's what I'm on about! The E-3 can't keep that pace and it bothers me. Now maybe I'm going overboard wanting the d700, but i figure if I'm going to get into a Nikon, I'll start with something that it seems will take me where I want to go for a good while.

Actually at 9:30 it's still fairly bright out so the Oly might not fair too badly, I'll give it a quick test in the next while. That would make the comparison fair rather than a spew from my pissed off, ranting, biased point of view :)

JAS_Photo
07-28-2009, 08:16 PM
Lol, I thought the photo was very noisy and too bright! What I learned from that is if I want a evening shot high ISO is not the way to go necessarily. I want it to still look like evening yet have a picture there. I don't know if that makes sense exactly but I do not want the camera turning night into daylight which is what I got. So I am thinking I should just under expose my high ISO shots or use lower ISO, I guess?

Michaelaw
07-28-2009, 08:23 PM
I think I know where you're coming from. If the sky light is all you have going for you the as you ramp down your exposure by either lowering your ISO or upping your shutter speed, your going to start to lose detail in the shadow areas. So I'm thinking by the time you get the effect of the evening as your eye sees it your camera may not pick out the detail you desire. I don't have a lot of experience in that type of light, but that's what my experience in general tells me.

kat
07-28-2009, 08:25 PM
Guess it all depends on the shot and if you need that faster shutter speed/light to make it a good image without the blur or if you have time to use the tripod and take your time.

Michaelaw
07-28-2009, 08:30 PM
That's the other part yes...Blur, I was kinda thinking every one would stay still for as long as the shot takes...Sometimes I think tooo hard:headslap:


Here's a fliker image of a d700 shot at 6400 ISO. Sure there's a bit of noise but I could easily deal with it in post If I needed to. No banding and the noise looks more filmic

LINK (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27211195@N00/3674642213)

F8&Bthere
07-30-2009, 03:15 PM
I guess a camera like the D3/D700 is the best way currently to be able to shoot high ISO/low noise. But I have a D300 and although Raiven's folkfest shot proves that camera is also very good at high-ish ISOs, I still find that I can only expect so much. There are times I'm shooting in low light with say a f1.8 prime and even jacking ISO up to 1600 doesn't give me enough shutter speed to get a good shot. I'm always fighting off blur from subject movement or camera shake, and if you ever rely on the camera's light meter and it underexposes, or if you just have a lot of shadows in the shot- let me tell you the noise gets pretty bad even on these newer Nikons. The kind of difference that is significant IMO is technology that doesn't exist yet. So we just need to utilize tripods, camera or lens stabilization, fast lenses, and post processing to squeeze what we can out our cameras ISO performance unless we want to invest a huge chunk of money on the marginal improvement offered by the latest/greatest

Michaelaw
07-30-2009, 10:00 PM
Truth be told, when I bought the E-3 I really wanted the d700 but I was to much in debt to afford it so I settled for the next best thing in my book. I've decided to keep the E-3 for a back up alternate system as there are so many things I like about it for wildlife work especially when the Zuiko 70-300mm is strapped on it, that's a match made in heaven :) If you look at some of the low light , high ISO stuff the d700 can do, it is not a marginal improvement over my present gear, it's in a class of its own.

F8&Bthere
07-31-2009, 12:56 AM
I guess I'm looking down the road to when we have the successor of CMOS technology that will give us usable shots at ISO 25600+, hehe. But until that day comes I keep hearing the Image Doctors (Nikonians podcasters) raving about the D3, and I guess the D700 is about the same, or close to it (trying to remember whether it's the same sensor)... They talk about surprisingly clean shots at 6400...that's pretty amazing. Combine that with a fast VR lens like the 70-200/2.8 and wow.... In fact one of their recent podcasts they were noting how the megapixel race between camera manufacturers has slowed down and that ISO performance are becoming more important.

Michaelaw
07-31-2009, 01:41 AM
From what I've read, the D700 is 95% the same as the D3 but is smaller and lighter. here's a shot from the D3 @ 25,600 ISO. I downloaded it and payed in PS and I can all but eliminate the noise. There's even some, what appears to be banding but at 25,600, the outside limit for the camera, I'd expect Some grief. Meanwhile, I've seen shots at 10,000 ISO that are with very little visible noise, and more importantly, it is noise that looks more like what you'd expect to see on film.


LINK 25,600 ISO (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20990774@N08/3144590954/sizes/o/)

Marko
07-31-2009, 12:42 PM
The D700 is an AWESOME camera, and I'm considering one for myself.
I tested one about a month ago. I only tested ISO to 1600 with excellent results.

I'm NOT at all sure this will solve your original dilemma though Maw.

Have you been PRINTING the images Maw, maybe that will get you more inspired. Digital images are great but they are not tangible. You can't "Just" look at one;you need a device.

I've said this many times and for me, printing an image (in darkroom or inkjet) is a jillion times more satisfying than posting it online......and these days, I rarely do it anymore.....

kat
07-31-2009, 12:48 PM
The D700 is an AWESOME camera, and I'm considering one for myself.
I tested one about a month ago. I only tested ISO to 1600 with excellent results.

I'm NOT at all sure this will solve your original dilemma though Maw.

Have you been PRINTING the images Maw, maybe that will get you more inspired. Digital images are great but they are not tangible. You can't "Just" look at one;you need a device.

I've said this many times and for me, printing an image (in darkroom or inkjet) is a jillion times more satisfying than posting it online......and these days, I rarely do it anymore.....

I have to agree! I try to get photos printed everytime I run out of town and the excitment to see them is wonderful! I just can't wait to have them presented to me. Sometimes I am a little sad because they didn't turn out how I thought (just didn't impact me like on the puter) and other times I'm in shock at how it comes out!

Printing definately brings another level to it.

Michaelaw
07-31-2009, 05:15 PM
The D700 is an AWESOME camera, and I'm considering one for myself.
I tested one about a month ago. I only tested ISO to 1600 with excellent results.

I'm NOT at all sure this will solve your original dilemma though Maw.

Have you been PRINTING the images Maw, maybe that will get you more inspired. Digital images are great but they are not tangible. You can't "Just" look at one;you need a device.

I've said this many times and for me, printing an image (in darkroom or inkjet) is a jillion times more satisfying than posting it online......and these days, I rarely do it anymore.....

The original problem was one of direction and no camera made could solve it. Though I still have not solved the problem, I'm gaining a lot of ground through introspective study. I'll always enjoy wildlife photography but it isn't fulfilling to me on a creative level. Somehow, I feel a need to use my craft to bring concepts, ideas and social issues to light. I think it's all part of my needing to find my niche in the world of image making. The D700 won't find this answer for me but it will allow for a more flexible creative process. Printing is another matter and someday I'll throw some cash at a large format printer. I do print occasionally but usually it's just what I see as my best stuff. The printer I have is quite good but can't do large prints and when it comes to printing 8.5 x 11 0r 13 isn't quite what I'm looking for. Photography is pretty much my life though lately I've been working so hard at my day job I'm not getting much time to shoot. Couple that with our recent heat wave.... Still sometimes a little pause for reflection helps clarify things I find:)

Michaelaw
08-08-2009, 05:18 PM
Just waiting for the D700 batt to charge is killing me :D...Christmas came today, YAY!!!

Michaelaw
08-08-2009, 08:52 PM
My car E-3 3200 ISO


http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/iso3200.jpg


Nikon D700 @ 6400 ISO


http://www.redzonefilms.com/pics2/iso3200n.jpg

Mad Aussie
08-09-2009, 02:03 AM
Picture says a thousand words! Or in this case ... 2 words ... "Huge improvement"

JAS_Photo
08-09-2009, 03:40 AM
Congrats on the D700! I am sure you will love it. :)

1putts
08-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Congrats on the new camera!

Michaelaw
08-11-2009, 10:44 PM
Thanks...The window was open so I jumped through because I knew if I didn't I'd have to wait months. Still relying on the E-3 system though as I could only afford the Nikon body and no lenses, at least til January. I got the 24-120 so at least I could play, and it's workable. By the time I can afford good glass I should know the camera backwards :) I did pick up a 50mm f1.8 cheap that seems to have potential but haven't had time to work with it as work is bagging me out. Should of had the weekend off but the phone rang " Can you help us out this weekend?" The way my life works, I take work as it comes because sometimes it doesn't!

F8&Bthere
08-12-2009, 12:17 AM
Congrats, Michaelaw...gotta luv a new toy! Doesn't that little 50/1.8 look underwhelming on that big ole D700? I know we should only worry about the optical qualities, not the appearance, of a lens, but that one just looks so geeky on my D300, and D700s even bigger. No wow factor. The 85/1.4 on the other hand.....drooool

That aside, it really is rated as an awesome bang for the buck lens and very sharp. And so far the little I've used mine indicates the consensus is on the mark.

Michaelaw
08-12-2009, 12:44 AM
It looks downright silly on the camera, all I need is to take a label maker, print out "Holga" and stick it square over the word Nikon and no security guard would question why I had a camera pointed at anything :D Haven't had much time to play with it other than a couple of "hey kitty stay still" kinda shots around the house. I'm excited about using it though because it present new turf compositionally for me, so I've been looking like mad at what others are doing with this lens trying to see how I'm going to fit this lens into my shooting style. I'm a zoom lens shooter mostly so I'm going to have to use me as the zoom now :D The tests I've managed to do are razor sharp across the board at higher f stops, looks very encouraging :)

F8&Bthere
08-12-2009, 12:12 PM
I'm more of a zoom guy too. My 50/1.8 is reserved more for a "it's so small you can keep in your bag all the time in case you run into some low light opportunity" kinda lens. But I so far have only had it on my camera for shooting around the house. Kids, pets, etc. I guess it would be a great lens for parties, maybe even nightclubs- if that's yer thang.