Food for thought

[Michaelaw]

Some info on the Swine Flu Vaccine you may want to consider before getting a jab!


LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1K74Tnrrok)

[kat]

There is a lot of talk about this. My friends two children just got the Swine Flu.. I won't be getting it for myself or my kids but sometimes wonder if this is wise....

[Bambi]

I understand that everyone should be able to make decisions, but where does it end when it directly impacts on the health of others?

this clip lost me when it linked Autism as being caused by vaccines. This statement makes me furious! Not only is there no evidence that vaccines cause autism, there is direct evidence that it does not!

Vaccines save lives. Diseases do not. I will be getting the swine flu vaccine, so will my kids.

[Michaelaw]

One of the hotels I do shows in has hand sanitizing machines everywhere you look, literally, you can't walk more than 30' in any given direction without bumping into one. My apartment building has one by the elevator doors on every floor. The research I've done online seems to conclude that Swine flu is no more of a problem than regular seasonal flu. There are reports and sworn testimonies that it is a lab created disease, doctors and journalists laying charges against the WHO, US Government and many other high rollers. The charges claim mass murder, genocide....It's a tough nut to get an accurate handle on. Media generated panic to up the profits of drug companies? I won't be touching the stuff but that's an easy call to make as I am just making it for me..... I just don't know :cry-an:

[Greg_Nuspel]

I think the main people behind the swine flue hype are all the people making huge profits by it. Pharmaceutical companies aren't making the vaccine for free, and the people who make the supplies like hand cleaners, masks, and needles must be loving the boom in business. High risk people it may be important, but I think healthy people will most likely get ill, but survive. I've even heard those of us that are older most likely have some antibodies for it just from the exposure of various flues for the last 50 years. That is what happened during the Spanish flue. I think it is for everyone to make their own decision as there is hype from both sides.

[Bambi]

I agree with the hype. we are dealing with it here too. There are those whom it hits hard: the young, elderly and immune compromised. It's also been documented to be bad for pregnant women I work in health care so will defintely get the vaccine to prevent me passing it to others.

I watch a documentary once that showed that Doctors' were the worst culprits in passing germs as they don't wash their hands between patients!!


but the whole autism - vaccine thing drives me nutty.

[Michaelaw]

I agree with the hype. we are dealing with it here too. There are those whom it hits hard: the young, elderly and immune compromised. It's also been documented to be bad for pregnant women I work in health care so will defintely get the vaccine to prevent me passing it to others.

I watch a documentary once that showed that Doctors' were the worst culprits in passing germs as they don't wash their hands between patients!!


but the whole autism - vaccine thing drives me nutty.


Interesting Bambi. I'd never heard of the link between autism and vaccination before but find myself intrigued now, enough to start a little research and data base building. Do you by chance have any links that refute this claim from a scientific perspective because that would sure help me in my quest to weed out the nutbars on this topic.

Cheers

[Bambi]

Interesting Bambi. I'd never heard of the link between autism and vaccination before but find myself intrigued now, enough to start a little research and data base building. Do you by chance have any links that refute this claim from a scientific perspective because that would sure help me in my quest to weed out the nutbars on this topic.

Cheers

absolutely. A quick look gave me this link for you: CBC News - Health - No link between autism and vaccinations: study (http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/07/05/autism-vaccine.html)


the basic premise goes like this: many children demonstrate symptoms of autism around 18-24 months. Many children also get their vaccines at this age. ergo the vaccine caused the autism. there are a number of basic flaws in this premise that anyone who puts some thought into can see:

1. you cannot make causal inferences from correlational data. All you can say is that they appear related but there can be a a third factor of which you are unaware that is the cause of both. For example, birds fly south around october/november. it starts to get cold in october/november. ergo the birds flying south caused it to get cold.

2. research has shown that there are specific periods in child development when major neurological changes occur. often these coincide with vaccinations. often seizure disorders will manifest themselves at around 18 months as well.

3. there is now a North American wide survey looking at siblings of children with autism. Here are some of the results: the incidence of autism in siblings is much higher then in the regular population. More interestingly from the perspective of this topic: signs and indications of Autism can be seen as early as 9 months of age. what is most likely happening that it is around 18-24 months that parents become concerned that something is wrong. Most often due to a lack of development in communication skills. the other behaviors that may be present are not as concerning at the time.

I hope this helps. In my opinion it is this myth that has resulted in more harm then good. I understand that parents want a reason as to why their child has this disorder and science has been slow in identifying it. We are closer but not there yet. As a result many parents are not getting the vaccine and children are becoming ill and some are dying needlessly. these so called child hood diseases are not harmless. As a child I almost died from the measles and as an adult I developed shingles which is the chicken pox virus that has gone into the nerve endings. It lays dormant for many years and then -bingo. Let me tell you shingles ain't fun! I developed shingles from being exposed to a child who had the chicken pox because the mother 'didn't believe in vaccinations'.

I also think that by focussing on vaccinations, the parents putting their energies in the wrong place.

Jenny McCarthy has done more to harm the cause of autism then I have seen in many many years. Autism may be preventable but we are many years from determining that. it is not reversible.

[Greg_Nuspel]

There you go trying to kill a perfectly good conspiracy theory with facts. Bird do make it cold with all the flapping of their wings. :evil2:

Latest one I heard today is that the vaccine is part of a terrorist plot to wipe out the North American continent. :wall-an:

[Bambi]

There you go trying to kill a perfectly good conspiracy theory with facts. Bird do make it cold with all the flapping of their wings. :evil2:

Facts are a $@tch aren't they?
Latest one I heard today is that the vaccine is part of a terrorist plot to wipe out the North American continent. :wall-an:

here's good basic advice for anyone:
DO NOT TAKE MEDICAL ADVICE FROM YOUTUBE

how to build a slip and slide from your roof the the backyard, sure. but not medical advice.

[Michaelaw]

Thanks for the link Bambi. In digging deeper into this I'm also finding studies that insist there is a link, and it doesn't help when CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding, admitted during a CNN interview ( though it was in 2008 but beyond the link you provided to a story from 2006?) that vaccines can trigger autism in a certain vulnerable subset of children. So once again I feel sort of powerless, I mean the truth is out there...Somewhere. Sometimes I really wish I could just swallow and believe what I'm told, Life would be so much simpler but alas, I've seen far to many examples of bad science and dis info for profit waged to ever let my guard down :mad:

Edit to add....Funny but doing all this research reminded me of when I was a child. On at least two occasions we got hold of mercury from busted thermometers and rolled it around in our hands for extended periods of time. I was later diagnosed with a mild case of Aspergers syndrome and sent off to Littlegreen boarding school. Could there be a connection? Anyone else hearing that Twilight Zone music :)

[Bambi]

Thanks for the link Bambi. In digging deeper into this I'm also finding studies that insist there is a link, and it doesn't help when CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding, admitted during a CNN interview ( though it was in 2008 but beyond the link you provided to a story from 2006?) that vaccines can trigger autism in a certain vulnerable subset of children. So once again I feel sort of powerless, I mean the truth is out there...Somewhere. Sometimes I really wish I could just swallow and believe what I'm told, Life would be so much simpler but alas, I've seen far to many examples of bad science and dis info for profit waged to ever let my guard down :mad:

Edit to add....Funny but doing all this research reminded me of when I was a child. On at least two occasions we got hold of mercury from busted thermometers and rolled it around in our hands for extended periods of time. I was later diagnosed with a mild case of Aspergers syndrome and sent off to Littlegreen boarding school. Could there be a connection? Anyone else hearing that Twilight Zone music :)

Hi Michael, I will try to track down the more recent article the seems to have settled the debate in scientific circles.

Autism is now viewed as neurologically based. therefore, siezure disorders can often be linked to autism (landau kleffner syndrome being one such). but not all children with seizures are autistic. and for those that are the seizures are present under 2 years of age. Aspergers fits on the mild end of the ASD spectrum. However, the link to mercury and neurological disorders I have no knowledge of what soever. I do know that the human brain is a very complex organism and that I doubt the mercury did it. How old were you when you started to play with it?

[Marko]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate these provocative non-photographic threads. Lotsa interesting members with interesting viewpoints on our board:highfive:

[Bambi]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate these provocative non-photographic threads. Lotsa interesting members with interesting viewpoints on our board:highfive:

thanks. Sometimes I think that I think too much...but that leads in a circle ;)

[Bambi]

HI Michael
I have found a few more links for you:
No Scientific Link Between Childhood Vaccines And Autism, Review Shows (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008131852.htm)
to quote:

ScienceDaily (Oct. 10, 2009) — A new article recently published in the Journal for Specialists in Pediatric Nursing explored vaccination history, vaccine safety monitoring systems in the U.S., and the two most publicized theoretical vaccine-related exposures associated with autism – the vaccine preservative thimerosal and the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. A review of published research shows that there is not convincing scientific evidence supporting a relationship between vaccines and autism.

Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122504388/abstract)
this is the abstract from the article in J. of Specialists in Pediatric Nursing
\
and you can read the entire article here:
Autism and Vaccination-The Current Evidence - page 2 | Journal for Specialists in Pediatric Nursing (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7591/is_200907/ai_n35628109/pg_2/?tag=content;col1)

I am attending a conference on autism this weekend and there's a talk by a leading expert on environmental factors and Autism. should be interesting!

[Michaelaw]

Thanks Bambi. I came across this info put forth by a Spanish doctor and as you had said you were willing to get a swine flu shot I thought it irresponsible on my part were I not to share this onfo with you.

Part 1YouTube - 1/6 BELL TOLLING for the Swine Flu (CAMPANAS por la gripe A) subtitled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0JqQyl09zQ&feature=related)

Part 2YouTube - 2/6 BELL TOLLING for the Swine Flu (CAMPANAS por la gripe A) subtitled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAmbOrVxMBo&feature=related)

Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqOqo-Zo6Ao&feature=related)

part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Ea_yCuL34&feature=related)

Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMgH27Jly7k&feature=related)

YouTube - 6/6 BELL TOLLING for the Swine Flu (CAMPANAS por la gripe A) subtitled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9_A588mqH0&feature=related)

[Greg_Nuspel]

Here is a public health announcement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EqGgZ_UuzA) from the government

[Bambi]

Hey Michael, I watched a bit of the videos but not all. I am relunctant to believe a youtube video on youtube as it's too easy to falsify credentials.
I have had the shot and had no ill effects.

Interestingly enough tonight I heard a lecture by an expert in prenatal exposure and the consequences. It seems that if the mother has rubella in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy, the risk of autism in the fetus increases by a factor of 40! That's huge. It makes me wonder of the impact when there are many parents choosing to not vaccinate their children for rubella. they are putting their grandchildren at risk.

Greg, I loved yours!

[Michaelaw]

You are correct about the ease of falsifying credentials but in this persons case it takes no time at all to trace back to the fact that she is legit and all the evidence she provides has been well documented by groups that are also easily tracked. For anyone who's done the research, most of what she relates has been in the alternative press for a while now but I liked how she encapsulated it, presented the knowledge and I find her conclusions interesting, though again, the information she offers has been on the trail for a while now. I am tracking a new viral outbreak in the Ukraine reportedly stemming from a local Baxter plant. I can't however verify a Baxter plant in the Ukraine, nearest is Moscow? From all I've read from various sources globally( Re the vaccine), at this time I suspect some underhanded manipulation will be evident at some time in the future. Youtube is generally my last resort also though for different reasons. Interestingly, I'm unaware of any mandatory vaccinations other than what was tried and seemingly backfired in some areas of US health care, though I haven't had time to really investigate that particular area. As one my old Profs used to say "It is what it is!":)

PS Teresa Forcades has already been on the hotseat with the Vatican for her stance on abortion.

Link (http://iglesiadescalza.blogspot.com/2009/10/sr-teresa-forcades-told-by-vatican-to.html)


Seems the WHO have now decided the Ukraine thing is H1N1

Link (http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_11_01/en/index.html)


Edit to add. As the good doctor points out, flu has been with us for ages at various threat levels of intensity, with that in mind and given that the swine H1N1 is allegedly no more deadly than any other seasonal flu, why the Level 6 pandemic status? This gives the WHO way more power within the international community, instead of just issuing health recommendations, they now issue health orders. Digging into the formation of the WHO and its powerbase can also open up a rather large can of "I don't want to know" worms!

[Michaelaw]

I am closing my files on this one, I have researched it as far as I'm willing to take it. The documentation is too horrific and the little dots join up with too much precision! I am now placing my head in the sand, If I make it to next summer, I make it but if I dwell on my findings I'll go mental. So I'm finished going down this road:wall-an::wall-an::wall-an::yuck:

[casil403]

I got one...only because I was on placement at the hospital and they had a clinic set up in the unit I was posted to. If not, no way would I have standed in line 3+ hours for it! I think the media has totally contirbuted to the hype and the government has done a really lousy job of setting this up properly for people that choose to get one.
I might also add that I grew up with a brother that had a compromised immune system and basically getting a cold or flu could have killed him. My sister brother and I grew up with getting flu shots every year in the 70's and we turned out okay.:D

When it comes to medicine, you are your own best advocate in health care so I think people need to weigh all the options for themselves, their families and determine what is best for them ultimately. I think too that when it comes to big topics everyone has an opinion and ultimately not everyone will agree with everybody elses. :)
That's my :twocents:
Love the clip there too Greg! :clown: