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Michaelaw
04-04-2010, 11:31 PM
Easter is just another time of year when I get hit in the wallet because of other peoples beliefs. Just put it in the same basket as Christmas and the Olympics. Oh Canada...I'm ready and able to work all these days you shut me down!. I'm a freelancer....You take my tax dollars, CPP, UIC, fuel tax. sales tax property tax, Casino money but unlike your employees who get Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday off this holiday weekend... WITH PAY! I just lose four days wages. And you wonder my dear government why I shaft you every chance I get!

Bambi
04-04-2010, 11:35 PM
you know Michael it might not be wise to post on a bulletin board that you shaft the government. :)

I am sorry that you are not getting paid today. For many people Monday is not a holiday (except for government employees like me).

However, every job has its ups and downs. I have job security (well mostly), good pay and a pension at some point. I also have to deal with those above me and below me. not to mention people not always thrilled with waiting for the service.

Michaelaw
04-05-2010, 12:10 AM
you know Michael it might not be wise to post on a bulletin board that you shaft the government. :)

I am sorry that you are not getting paid today. For many people Monday is not a holiday (except for government employees like me).

However, every job has its ups and downs. I have job security (well mostly), good pay and a pension at some point. I also have to deal with those above me and below me. not to mention people not always thrilled with waiting for the service.

I couldn't give a rats petunia what the government reads about me and if they were the last employer left on earth...I'd starve!!! No disrespect to you:) I worked for them once and swore I'd never repeat that mistake. I have never in all my years seen a more bumbling way to waste vast amounts of money in my life. Of course it helps that accountability is not one of the five stars that rate their performance. I strongly resent paying taxes of any kind...Yes I use their roads but if they had left some old horse trails for me I would not! I am an anti religious, government, Olympic grouch sometimes :)

Iguanasan
04-05-2010, 12:36 AM
So, I'm curious. If you are a freelancer how does the government giving their employees off cause you to lose 4 days of pay? Do you freelance for the government? Do you lose 2 days pay every weekend?

Not trying to put you on the spot but I just don't understand.:confused:

casil403
04-05-2010, 12:46 AM
Easter Monday is not really a holiday in Alberta either....Gov't employees have the day off but in the O&G business (which runs the city and the province) it's back to work for the most part.
I'm sorry MAW I'm with Iggy..:shrug: If you don't work for the government, I don't really understand how a 4 day holiday would impact a free-lance worker. :)
I'm okay with paying taxes too btw.....I would rather pay taxes than have the American system of doing things....especially when it comes to health care.

Michaelaw
04-05-2010, 12:54 AM
I meant Iggy, (though I'm a bad ranter... Too emotional:laughing:) that as an employee of most companies in Canada you either get a day off with pay or if you work, you are compensated with extra coin, ie time and a half, double time etc for public holidays. Though I'm a freelancer, the government has pushed us into a slot called casual labor so they can apply all said money collections, UI, CPP, income tax what have you, nice for them but because the country is busy celebrating the holiday, my services are not needed...Too bad for me, I'm not compensated in this case for Good Friday or Easter Monday. I didn't get mail on Friday nor will I on Monday. It's a pointless rant I suppose but it irks me that I lose close to six thousand dollars this year mostly due to what others believe. Otherwise I stay afloat like the rest of us :laughing:

Michaelaw
04-05-2010, 01:08 AM
Casil...

:laughing: I admit I went sideways bringing Big Brother into it. As a freelance you work when the work is there. This can mean 14 days straight followed by one day off and many nasty turn a rounds with only two or three hours sleep. I put up with this because I know that the industry will tank throughout the year. People don't hold conferences during holidays and usually tend to hedge three or more days either side of said holiday. In the case of Easter this year it's a four day event That I'm flat lined for plus three days either side of really slow activity. I guess I'm getting old and cranky :D I should just pull in my fins and take a job at London Drugs selling cameras or home theater...People shop 24/7 365 :thumbup:

Michaelaw
04-05-2010, 02:56 AM
And to top it off :laughing: I did have a four hour shift tomorrow covering some persons butt for the holiday but....Just got the call that his boss told him it wasn't a holiday and he had to work the shift. Sure hope this guy phones the post office :laughing:

Greg_Nuspel
04-05-2010, 07:16 AM
Hey I thought ranting in BC was a union position, being union you're not allowed to do this on holidays :laugh:

casil403
04-05-2010, 09:21 AM
Casil...

:laughing: I guess I'm getting old and cranky :D I should just pull in my fins and take a job at London Drugs selling cameras or home theater...People shop 24/7 365 :thumbup:

MAW...lol...aren't we all.
I can see you as a Walmart greeter actually....:laughing::evil2:
Actually MEC has greeters now too (found this out on the weekend) so you could be a "green, eco-friendly" greeter! :highfive:

Bambi
04-05-2010, 09:57 AM
MAW...lol...aren't we all.
I can see you as a Walmart greeter actually....:laughing::evil2:
Actually MEC has greeters now too (found this out on the weekend) so you could be a "green, eco-friendly" greeter! :highfive:

MAW as a Wal-Mart greeter is a great idea. Maybe Kat could go get pictures.

And MAW I can assure you that in our little branch of health care there is neither excess nor useless spending. 90% of it goes to salary and the rest to operations.

Marko
04-05-2010, 10:26 AM
Also being a freelancer...I can see MAW's POV easily. Who is paying for government workers to take their days off? It's you and me....(isn't it?)
Given that we freelancers also pay and pay and pay...it might be nice if WE also had paid holidays.

In terms how much all this costs....(sorry for the threadjack) I was curious...what is the largest expense that taxpayers pay for?
I was thinking about this the other day...
How much does medicare cost?
How much does the Canada pension plan cost
How much does unemployment insurance cost

and do those costs pale in comparisson to how much it costs to run the government itself...all the salaries of likely hundreds of thousand of employees in all departments....ok :sorry: :offtopic:

Bambi
04-05-2010, 02:03 PM
well the truth is that everyone is paying for everyone. I also pay taxes so am contributing to my own salary. When I buy a product I am paying towards many people's salary as well.

Picking on government workers is almost too easy. Most work very hard and are underpaid compared to those that work in the corporate world. However, it provides more time with families so in that regard, it's worth it.

Marko
04-05-2010, 03:16 PM
Most work very hard and are underpaid compared to those that work in the corporate world. However, it provides more time with families so in that regard, it's worth it.I cannot speak with authority about any particular government worker, but i would highly highly doubt that most work very hard.....I'm gonna get myself in trouble....but....there is no real reason for most government workers to work hard. Why? because it's Very difficult, if not impossible to fire a full time government worker that is mediocre. Their union is too strong. They may get transferred to a new department many times during their careers but they won't ever get fired for being mediocre. If there is no serious consequence for doing mediocre work, VERY few people will step up to be better than average.

I'm sure you are NOT one of these workers bambi, but I would be very very very surprised if you disagree with the above premise.

My (past) experience with unions and unionized workers is that the majority or my colleagues did mediocre work at best. Many did horrible work...but they never beat anyone up, or sexually harassed anyone so they could not get fired. I see no reason at all why government workers should differ from this pattern on average. :twocents:

Iguanasan
04-05-2010, 04:10 PM
As a government worker I have to agree with you, Marko. There is a small percentage. About 5% maybe, that work quite hard to keep everything running well. There are about 15% that keep the wheels moving with a good effort, 60% that do just enough to keep everyone happy and 20% that are just complete and utter deadwood. This is one of the reasons I left government service 9 years ago for a career in the private sector.

But after 7 1/2 years of chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, working 10, 12, 14 hour days and only a few days off a year I decided that a change of career was a good idea and I wanted to do something that let me clock out at the end of the day and not take my work home with me.

That turned out to be another government job :headslap: However, for the 7.5 hours a day I am at the office I am productive and I try to worry less about what others do. This keeps me sane and employed :D

Michaelaw
04-05-2010, 04:19 PM
A little observation from me over the past ten years. When I work with corporate conferences the attendees are attentive, organized, well dressed for the event and seem to know exactly what's going on through the number of days the event lasts. A conference put on by CUPE is completely the opposite. If you invited all the homeless to meet in a posh downtown hotel you'd have almost the same dress code as a CUPE conference. Even with signs pointing the way to every event and function, I spend all day being stopped by attendees..."Where's lunch?" "Where's the Rainbow room?" "where's the washrooms? It's as though they need to be given instructions for every move they make. Corporate function attendees might ask if they can get photo copies made at the business center but that's about it, they know where they're eating, where their next function room is and when not to wear that T-shirt with the big dayglow pot leaf on it :laughing:

Bambi
04-05-2010, 05:16 PM
I don't know. Maybe my agency is exceptional or maybe it's because it's in healthcare but 99% of the staff I supervise work incredibly hard. In fact I get after them about working unpaid overtime (no budget for that :)) but they put in the time for free of their own free will.

As for overpaid. They have the same amount of education as physicians and get less then half of the salary.

of course we're just recently unionized so perhaps it will change. I am not unionized as I am management. But when I was I still worked really hard.

I see the same in hospitals. there is deadwood, no question but they are outnumbered by those who work hard.

And IMO I don't see any beauty in someone working 70 hours a week so she can own a BMW and a yacht.

In the end we pick our careers and there's good and bad in all. As Iggy said, we need to worry about how hard we work and not everyone else because that will drive you nutty. There are consequences to being self-employed. But you chose it and so I think that there must be some nice things about it. Whether you get weekends off or not.

Greg_Nuspel
04-05-2010, 07:44 PM
The only government workers that deserve to be picked on are the politicians. Put them on a spit and roast them and I'll brush on the sauce. :evil2:

Michaelaw
04-05-2010, 08:50 PM
I'll bring the beer :thumbup:

casil403
04-05-2010, 11:54 PM
I dunno...while I can see your points here I have to add that people such as Nurses, Therapists, Teachers, military personel overseas fighting are all government workers and I defy anybody to tell me these people are lazy and overpaid.

Another one...my Mum who worked as a purchasing agent for the government for years had to deal with all the verbal shoite and abuse from angry people (many of them freelancers I might add) who lost the contract they had bid on...99.99% of the time it was the bidder's fault to not practicing due diligence in making sure the paperwork was properly completed both in full and on time.
Of course never their fault though...it was always that the Government/my Mother was corrupt and dishonest and they would direct all their anger and abuse at her. :sad:
And she was not the only one in her department I might add.

So see their are 2 sides to the coin. Please be careful when pigeonholing/stereotyping people.
:twocents: :)

Greg_Nuspel
04-05-2010, 11:58 PM
Casil I still say roast the politicians:lightbulb

Michaelaw
04-06-2010, 12:02 AM
And if we don't get started soon, the beer will be all gone :D

Michaelaw
04-06-2010, 12:26 AM
Casil you are of course right but also maybe pigeon holing in reverse. I will slam the government any chance I get as well as Chevron, Monsanto etc. The employees of these outfits are just that...Employees, some genuine shining talent huddled into a group with many slackasses. As in any corporation (and if you really think about it the gov is just a corporation in a different shirt) you will find every level of employee. In non unionized corporate world the slackers tend to get kicked fairly quickly out of the park! In the heavily protected gov/union world however the mix is far different so the ratio of effective vs non effective employee value to the employer is a totally different game. As for my CUPE reference, I stand by that as a general observation and have a fairly good (I believe) understanding of its structure ergo its demonstration in the real world. As I said though, in any working environment be it corp or gov there are the shining stars, gems and general filler. I'm guessing your mother shone brightly:)

casil403
04-06-2010, 08:42 AM
You are right too Mike....in ANY company there are people who both work hard and there are slackers who either outright do nothing or pretend to look busy. I too have worked for both union and non-union outfits. I worked for UVic as a chef way back and I kid you not, they had a guy whose sole job was to go around the campus and change the lightbulbs...he was not even a ticketed electrician.and they had several ticketed electricians on campus...we were not supposed to change lightbulbs...we had to call the main switchboard who would call him and he would make time to come down and do it sometime in the week! Mind you we managed somehow to look after the lights ourselves....lol...shhh but don't tell anybody! We called him "Lightbulb Bob"! Swear it's the truth!
Meanwhile, we were the least paid workers on campus who all had journeyman tickets in cooking because we were "not considered part of the University:"...funny we were in the same union (CUPE) and paid the same dues. Here's the kicker... if I wanted, I could walk across the street and sell donuts at the snack shop and make $2 more/hour...at a place that was "Part of the University".

I have also worked in non-union restaurants that were just as bad where a union might have not been a bad thing. It was pretty tough dealing with the mental/verbal abuse and sexual innuendo from the Chef, watching the lazy-a$$ janitorial staff who got away with doing the bare minimum (and kept their jobs) and not being able to take days off when I was sick because there were no sick days available...mind you we had a good benefit/health plan, RRSP plan and the hours were pretty good...which was why I stayed mostly.
I dunno...I'm glad I am out of the cooking business and on to something new...and you know what? There will probably be more of the same wherever I next end up as well to to some degree...I've just learned to do my job the best I can and not worry about others.. that way I won't get crazy or bitter...Life will be as it should. :)
Nature of the beast I think.

Again, there are 2 sides to every coin....and you are right.... there are good/bad apples everywhere in the government, in the private sector, in all walks of life..which I guess was my point as well. :)
End rant....lol! So where's the beer and when is the damn BBQ ready? :laughing:

Bambi
04-06-2010, 08:54 AM
I'll bring the stuff for Smores.....

Marko
04-06-2010, 09:42 AM
For me, it's more about human nature than government/non government workers.

Most people will simply slack off (do a mediocre or less than mediocre job) if they can get away with it...period. MOST people. There will always be exceptions....thank goodness.

Given that most government workers are unionized (read EXTREMELY difficult to fire) they will follow this pattern on average imo. (thanks for supporting this POV iggy)

Given that non unionized workers can be easily fired compared to unionized workers, the level of their work will be consistently higher and they will be way way way more productive....on average. :twocents:

casil403
04-06-2010, 10:57 AM
For me, it's more about human nature than government/non government workers.

Most people will simply slack off (do a mediocre or less than mediocre job) if they can get away with it...period. MOST people. There will always be exceptions....thank goodness.

Given that most government workers are unionized (read EXTREMELY difficult to fire) they will follow this pattern on average imo. (thanks for supporting this POV iggy)

Given that non unionized workers can be easily fired compared to unionized workers, the level of their work will be consistently higher and they will be way way way more productive....on average. :twocents:

I'm sorry Marko, but again I am going to disagree with you here. :)
It is my opinion that most people do a good, hard and honest job for their employer (be they union or non-union employees) and the slackers are the exception and minority and not the rule. The problem is that people allow them to get away with being slakers because they don't want to make waves or be seen in bad light by their peers...everybody complains but no one does anything...Iknow as I am guilty of it as well in my past. I believe apathy is what lets slackers get away with what they get away with.
I do agree with you however that it is hard to "can" someone in unionized enviroments.:o
Maybe I am naive here, (I don't think so though) but I really, truly beilieve that the majority of people work hard for their income so I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. :)

Marko
04-06-2010, 11:15 AM
then we agree to disagree casil :)
In no way does your last paragraph represent my immediate experiences. The "allowing" thing you talk about is the crux of the problem. The allowing is done because unionized slackers cannot be fired unless they do something REALLY bad (like sexual harassment). The larger the organization, the greater the slacking. Mediocre work is NOT one of the things that gets them fired. :twocents:

I do believe that most people on this planet are good people....but that is completely different.

casil403
04-06-2010, 03:08 PM
then we agree to disagree casil :)
In no way does your last paragraph represent my immediate experiences. The "allowing" thing you talk about is the crux of the problem. The allowing is done because unionized slackers cannot be fired unless they do something REALLY bad (like sexual harassment). The larger the organization, the greater the slacking. Mediocre work is NOT one of the things that gets them fired. :twocents:

I do believe that most people on this planet are good people....but that is completely different.

Well okay then...the beer's on me if we ever meet up we can continue our disagreeing to disagree discussion in person! :highfive: :grouphug:

Bambi
04-06-2010, 04:08 PM
see how she always brings it back to beer? there's a reason I like this woman! :laughing:

I'm going to disagree with both you! I think that MOST people start off motivated and hard working but many lose the momentum along the way. Perhaps the job becomes too mundane, perhaps they get discouraged seeing others get away with poor performance, perhaps it makes no difference to their boss so they figure 'what's the point'. There are many reasons for it but no excuses. :twocents:

casil403
04-06-2010, 04:13 PM
;) Beer rules the world, and is the motivator of all things great and ultimately it is what makes the world go 'round B...:highfive: :laughing: :evil2:
I think that is one thing we can ALL agree on!! :clap: :highfive: :party:

Kawarthabob
04-08-2010, 08:43 PM
i'm wondering if beer was the root of starting this thread:laughing: