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No worries here MA. I am outnumbered here on this site being one of the only couple of Americans on here. Just dont want you all to think that we are that way. I know you guys dont, but just wanted to state that Im always proud to be an American, Im just not always proud of Americans.
Trust me JJ ... my sentence wasn't a steroetype ... if the news had been in Lithuania ... I would have said "It's a proud moment to be in Lithuania"
Now, it might just be me. But if someone has done the time for whatever he's done, that it for me. I'm always very hesitant to keep judging and convicting someone for a crime they've already done the time for. I don't know all the details and story the judge does, who am I to second guess him, or her, and say we should punish this guy some more for what he's done. If the judge thinks he's payed for his crimes, I'll take that. It's done. Not every crime should haunt a man for the rest of his life. Now, what he's done is pretty cruel and wrong in every way. But not so much he doesn't deserve a second chance. Or at least it's not up to me to deside that anyways. But I've always been a guy of second chances. People make mistakes. Big mistakes. Not everyone should immediately ruin your life...
I'm not a hippy. Punishment should be severe and harsh. But when it's done, it's done. We've got judges and juries to punish people, society shouldn't interfere with it's own judgement based on gut feeling. Revenge has no place in the justice system...
As for goverments, here it's just as bad. The US is not unique. Politicians are full of sh*t everywhere... ;)
In this case 42 ... the crime was in the recent past ... and now he's getting an award. I think that's where the foul taste in the mouth lies.
Doing time might be penalty served but it doesn't mean the person is now a better man. In this case I highly doubt the guy has changed much at all.
Also, he didn't make a mistake ... he made a choice ... over and over again ... and got caught.
Some crimes deserve to haunt a person for life. Especially when they involve hurting another being who has their scars or death for life.
I'm not saying I don't understand your feelings. Or that this guy deserves a medal or anything. I'm sure as hell not defending what he's done.
But I just don't believe in society casting judgement on people. We've tried that in the middle ages, didn't work very well. I don't know if the guy has changed or learned anything. I've never met him. I shouldn't deside if he needs more punishment or not. That's my point... ;)
I don't think the point of the topic is to give him more punishment ... just whether he's worthy of an award of this sort.
My personal opinion is no bloody way. Until he proves himself as a valued and productive member of society he deserves no award.
Every single fireman, paramedic, social worker ( I could go on and on) deserves awards well before this degenerate butthole.
If you still take his crime into consideration, you are still punishing him in one way or another. Now, he still might not deserve the award, but this should be because he's done just nothing or not enough to deserve it. Not because this crime is still being reflected onto him as a person.
Now, I fully realise this is much easier for me, since around here nobody has ever heard of this guy. But I get sick and tired of people shouting "death penalty" at every newsitem about a burglar getting caught. It's so easy to pass judgment on people you don't know. We're all hearing the story trough some from of journalism media. We don't get the details, motivations and background stories. We don't realise how important these can be. All we do is hear about something and make a black and white judgement about what we think. It's too easy, we disregard so much. We don't see that.
Again, I'm not saying this guy deserves the award or not. His teammate, the people close to him did. There must be something they know that we don't...
I think he is trying to make amends for his errors and mistakes. I dunno if he deserves an award quite yet,(seems a bit early for me), but I believe after reading this he is trying. I was astonished and outraged too when I read the title and then I read the story. Forgiving is not forgetting in anyway, but it seems if the Humane Society can do it, then maybe so can I. Just my :twocents: and I guess I am with 42 on this one.Quote:
"Off the field, Vick has worked with The Humane Society of the United States, speaking at churches, schools and community groups about the poor judgment he showed in getting involved in dogfighting.
"Michael Vick approached us and said he wanted to be part of the solution instead of the problem," Michael Markarian, executive vice president and CEO of the Humane Society, said before the event. "We asked him if he do volunteer work, go to communities all over the country and talk to at-risk youth and try to steer them away from dogfighting."
Markarian said Vick has told his story in "about a dozen" cities.
"The Humane Society of the United States was the toughest critic of Michael Vick when these allegations first came to light," Markarian said. "But we want to find creative solutions to try to reach kids, particularly young men, who get pitbulls for the wrong reason. They are really moved after they hear Michael Vick's story, and it turns them away from dogfighting."
But not once has he admitted to the torture of the animals he had in his compound (and they number in the 100's from family pets he trew to the dogs to get them going to the dogs who lost that he killed in incredibly awful ways). All he's ever said is that he was sorry that he exercised bad judgment in getting involved in dog fighting. I believe that he's using the SPCA to increase his public image and they are using him to combat dog fighting. Whatever.
I agree, he's done his time. And it's done. He's back playing football and making his fortune. This is not worthy of a bravery award. He went to jail because he was guilty. Lots of people do that every day. Lots do their time and get out and don't get an award. Frankly I would be fine if someone went to jail (for any crime), did their time and rebuilt their life from nothing. That takes bravery and commitment. Michael Vick demonstrated none of this. The award is simply public manipulation. And it's not so much a government problem as a corporate problem. And society's view. I find it ironic that Michael Vick gets a bravery award while Tiger Woods is still being vilified and all he did was screw around. Something I care nothing about.
I can accept the Michael has done his time. And it's done. It would take a lot to convince me that he's changed his ways and that's because he was cruel to a helpless creature. I feel the same way about any one who's crime is perpetrated on the defenseless, whether they are animal or human. I believe that it speaks to who you are as a human being. It will take a lot more then a few public speaking events in schools to convince me he's changed. But that's my opinion and I'm okay if others don't agree.
And it's all irrelevant. The main point is that there is no evidence that he's done anything to justify this award. Other then spin. And that's sickening to me and demeaning to the award. If I had such an award and heard that he had received it, it would greatly diminish it's value for me.
:twocents:
I'm sure Tiger will get some kind of award in a few years too. :)Quote:
I find it ironic that Michael Vick gets a bravery award while Tiger Woods is still being vilified and all he did was screw around.