Canon 60D

[asnow]

One of my co-workers was looking at upgrading his XSi and we had a look at the specs between the T3i and the 60D. There doesn't seem to be much difference. My guess is that the 60D is probably built a bit more rugged. QuietOne, have you figured out why the 60D is better and should pay the extra bucks?

[Realist]

One of my co-workers was looking at upgrading his XSi and we had a look at the specs between the T3i and the 60D. There doesn't seem to be much difference. My guess is that the 60D is probably built a bit more rugged. QuietOne, have you figured out why the 60D is better and should pay the extra bucks?

Well it's hard to find the differences just by looking at the spec sheets. Here's a handful: larger frame (good for my large hands), more rugged body, pentaprism vs. pentamirror, can control speedlights wirelessly, greater shutter speed range, faster burst, different control layout, LCD screen for the settings so you don't have to have the main LCD on all the time. There's a few more differences, but i can't think of them right now. That right there is worth the $200 more to me.

Thanks for the battery advice too, i'll look at picking up a spare. Hopefully Adorama can knock a few dollars off the price then too. Not counting on it, but i'll try.

[QuietOne]

One of my co-workers was looking at upgrading his XSi and we had a look at the specs between the T3i and the 60D. There doesn't seem to be much difference. My guess is that the 60D is probably built a bit more rugged. QuietOne, have you figured out why the 60D is better and should pay the extra bucks?

I had a quick look at the specs from Canon USA's website and I would say, yes, the 60D is a far more capable camera, with features that add up to $300 dollars value and more. Links, in case the spec sheets you were looking at were the Clif Notes version:
Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : EOS Rebel T3i 18-55mm IS II Kit
Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : EOS 60D

ISO increments in 1/3 stop? Interchangeable focus screens? (Could make a difference if your eyes have problems with certain types) Smaller spot metering area, a semi-spot metering? Fastest shutter speed twice as fast as the T3i's? In a strict sense, the bang for the buck is definitely there.

The real question is, would your coworker use them? How serious is he about photography? If I were answering for me, I'd get it, because it's something I could grow into for a long time.

I have a couple of rules of thumb for buying just about anything. The first is, in my experience, no matter what it is, you are almost always better buying something one to two tiers up from the bottom level. The difference in quality and capability tends to be much higher for not much more. I find this to be especially true for electronics and power tools.

Second, for electronics I tend to overbuy for my existing needs. The reasons are that growing into something I mentioned, and because if I buy something towards the middle of the pack, it'll still be reasonably capable a few years down the road, even with as fast as things like cameras (and computers) are changing.

Third, two questions I always ask are, what will I be doing with this thing? And what have I been trying to do that the current widget just isn't handling? This will point you to the things where that tiny difference is what would be more important to you.

For budget, consider this question. The common wisdom is buy a cheap body and expensive lenses, because the bodies don't hold their value and the lenses do. While that's true, there's an underlying assumption - that you can afford to buy a new body every 2 to 3 years. I can't. And paying a little extra for the better body will, I hope, last me a decade or more for the shooting I tend to do, even as I improve. This is a strategy that's worked well with computers, and though cameras are changing faster at the moment, I suspect it will work fairly well for them, too.

For reviews, I like Digital Cameras: Digital Photography Review, News, Reviews, Forums, FAQ. Are they the best? I dunno. But they do two things that are useful to me. The first is they explain why they say the things they do and why they're testing the way they do. The other is they show me things in exhaustive detail. 20 to 22 web pages of detail. Close ups of the controls. The way the camera fits in a hand. Menus and submenus. Further breakdowns of specifications. Noise tests. Sharpness tests. A group of subjects under different lighting at different ISOs. Crops of those same pictures. And for some of the tests, they have drop downs for similar cameras, so you can see results side by side.

They do have reviews for both cameras. The one for the T3i is currently about 7 pages, without all of the tests, because at the time they only had a prototype. I assume they'll do a more exhaustive one once they have the final version.

[Marko]

Looks like a good list to me!

- You WILL want that extra battery and I've had good luck with 3rd party batteries that are WAY cheaper.
- You WILL want a kick butt tripod and if it's landscape photography and you want high quality and low weight - this will add between 700.-1100 depending on brand. If It's studio work, you can get an older (non-carbon fibre) tripod and great head for about 300-400 - and much cheaper used.
- You WILL want a zoom lens at some point

Hope that helps - Marko

[Realist]

Looks like a good list to me!

- You WILL want that extra battery and I've had good luck with 3rd party batteries that are WAY cheaper.
- You WILL want a kick butt tripod and if it's landscape photography and you want high quality and low weight - this will add between 700.-1100 depending on brand. If It's studio work, you can get an older (non-carbon fibre) tripod and great head for about 300-400 - and much cheaper used.
- You WILL want a zoom lens at some point

Hope that helps - Marko

Well i've read reviews on the offbrand battery, and they all were 1 star. They said it wouldn't work in the camera or the charger, so you had to buy their charger. So I will spend the 60 bucks for canon's battery.

I already have a tripod from a few years ago, a SLIK 300DX i believe. It's pretty sturdy, and is pretty versatile.

With the zoom lens is the reason behind that, in case i can't zoom with my feet I can zoom with my lens? I've always had zoom lenses, but now i want to try some fast prime lenses, that's why I picked what I did.

[Realist]

Okay now i'm really confused on what lenses i want. Would really appreciate some help before i pull all my hair out.
For the price range of around 900 here's some options i've been seriously considering.

The 24mm f/2.8 or 28mm f/1.8 to go with the 85mm f/1.8.

The 15-85mm EF-S IS USM f/3.5-5.6

The 17-40 EF L f/4

I like the fact that the primes, are good in low light, and can give great bokeh, but I'm sure it will be inconvienient to swap lenses every few minutes.

With the 15-85 i like the range going from wide to telephoto, along with the IS. I'm sure I'll want to do some indoor shooting, and this is not very fast.

The 17-40 seems to have better image quality, but again it's not the fastest lense in the world, doesn't have that large of a focal range, and it seems to have a good bit of CA.

So can anybody please help me and give me some advice, would be GREATLY appreciated!

[Iguanasan]

I think you've listed all the reasons why you should or shouldn't buy a particular lens. What you have to decide is, for that budget, what can you live with? There will always be a lens better than the one you bought unless you have an unlimited budget and buy the absolute top of the line.

While I am not particularly thrilled with my 18-55mm kit lens it is a great all-purpose lens that got me around and got me shooting for a year until I could by a different lens and I still use it in well lit conditions where I want to shoot f/8 to f/11 with a fairly wide angle. If it were me and I had no other lenses to speak of, I'd start with the 15-85 which would be a great lens for general purpose shooting. You have to decide what kind of shooting you are going to do. If you are going to be a portrait guy then maybe the 85mm f/1.8 would be a better choice? You seem to have all the angles, you just need to decide which, of course, is the hardest part!

[Realist]

Thanks Iguanasan.

Well for now i've made a decision. I want to buy the 15-85mm lens. Think it would be the best value. I like doing landscape photography mostly, and it should do the trick nicely with it's wide FOV.

Also I though about it really hard and want to pick up a nifty fifty f/1.4. Think I'll extend my budget a little for that because I know i'll be doing some indoor shooting on occation. It should be good for family gatherings indoors for video and photo.

Now lets see if I can talk to Adorama and see if they're willing to do a discount.