I believe in......

[Michaelaw]

One thing always bothered me as a child when it came to the concept of religion and to this day I can’t really say I understand the notions I had as a ten year old. I was raised by parents whom it seems were never completely sure either. As far back as I can recall, our family unit was never completely solidified on one religious doctrine. First we were Baptist then Lutheran then Baptists again then this followed by that. I recall attending a church where people spoke in tongues and another where they did the gospel singing and a lot of “Oh Lordy, lordy, lordy have mercy on my soul type stuff. Through all of this and observing the totally different persuasions of my friends, I was left with a strange notion that many people on earth were believing and praying to different gods but the one thing they all had in common was the belief that they were right. There was no clear way to eternal life other than to believe in the God they subscribed to. This was a conundrum for a young boy because it seemed to me that out of all of these ways to heaven, only one could be right…Which one? Later in life it occurred to me that the beliefs we hold in this matter are handed down generation to generation, that is what our parents believe is ingrained in us, solidified as belief and passed to the next generation and so on. As a child it occurred to me that being born in England to parents who were Baptist I naturally adopted this belief pattern, however, had I been born five thousand miles in another direction I would perhaps have been a Muslim. Had I been born yet a few thousand miles in another direction I would have adopted the philosophy of Buddha. It clearly seemed to me that it was a cosmic “roll the dice” deal as to how my beliefs would be formed. To this day I wonder how and why we don’t see this? Who knows, if we survive long enough, put our petty disputes on the back burner, we may eventually reach other worlds and civilizations and yes…We will have to contend with even more beliefs! I just don’t get this. Your thoughts?

[hodaka]

Well, this is a big can o' worms!

Here's my feelings: true adherents of a true religion will show true love for each other and fellow man. This precludes war, hatred, selfishness, jealousy, and many other things. Ask yourself: how can you love God if you hate your fellow man? If you can't love your fellow man, how can you love a god that you have never seen, who also created your fellow man?
John 13:35 - "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves"
It shouldn't matter where you are born, if you truly believe in a higher power, you should understand that that higher power is responsible for putting us all here on earth. That knowledge alone should be enough to see the truth in Jesus' words in the above passage (exact wording in your translation will vary, but the plain english is the same). If you religion condones behaviour contrary to that, why? Even non-Christians of note have seen and commented on the wisdom of Jesus' words, though viewing him as only a historical figure of note.
In warfare, often ones will fight for a particular country, claiming god on their side, and yet ones from their own religion are fighting against them for another country. How does that make sense?

I guess it comes down to seeing beyond the doctrine. Often, doctrine is peppered with philosophy, tradition, and speculation. These are all things that have been added and subtracted over time. Getting to the root can be difficult, but if you believe that god loves us, you can cut out anything that runs contrary to that. Take out the human element, so to speak.

[Michaelaw]

Thanks for the input H. I am no longer a believer in any religion by choice, admittedly mine. I realize however that in this soup called life we all must come to some conclusions and I feel a need to respect the conclusions of other regardless of whether or not I agree. I feel this somehow is the key to our ultimate survival...Tolerance of differing opinions. Once again I find myself wishing I could just sit back and believe that which I have been taught but it is not in my nature Oddly, I await my final breath with excitement in some ways because then, and only then will I know! Not that I herald the final breath or sit on the front lawn in anticipation, I just think I can only be true to myself by believing that the path I follow is correct until the end....Faith! In that respect I can honestly say I fear nothing.

PS...My next off topic post is a real humdinger

[Greg_Nuspel]

I have always believed that the only reason to fight a holly war is if you fear the other guy might be right. One of my favourite quote for which I don't know the author is; "If god created us in his own image we have certainly returned the complement".

You can tell religions are written by man, most times 'men'. I was raised in a religious family and then I started to question it all and the more I looked the more the corruption of man was evident. I can not believe in a petty god that would strike down his creations for being flawed. This would be like parents killing their children because they didn't turn out the way they wanted, and everyone would accept that. So if heaven is run by a tyrant like that who wants to be there. You might just forget to clean your cloud one day and zap your gone.

One thing I have found with all the great people I respect is that they are humble and don't want or expect praise, I like to apply this to religion as well.

[Michaelaw]

Something I read/heard, been so long I can't remember but the story happened in India and it caused me to pause and think. Years ago, India was a much poorer nation and though things have improved for the people of this nation, they're still not extreme heavy hitters economically. In order to work the land they needed cows, oxen to pull the plows to till the land to plant the crops and grow the food they needed to survive. Tractors were financially out of the question. At this period in time though, they were still eating their tractors. The government in collusion with the religious leaders let the people know in no uncertain terms that it was against gods will to eat beef, the animal was declared sacred in the eyes of God. In essence it became illegal to eat the tractors. Too much time has passed for me to remember from where I got this info as I said but at the time it struck me as a documented case of how powers and religion or both could be used to steer the people (no pun intended) Granted, this would seem a valid reason to use that power but the fact that belief could be swayed to choose a direction for it's followers was noted at the time.

[Michaelaw]

My original point in my OP didn’t seem to come across as crystal clear as I had hoped though so I’ll give a new slant on my point. Let’s say there is a city populated by two religions, they are group A and group B. group A live in the west end of the city while group B take up residence in the east. Group A want to belong to the mother country from whence they came while group B want total autonomy. No one can reach a compromise so the two factions declare war on each other. While the war rages for centuries, the hatred between the two grows. All the while the two groups must live, eat and survive so the war is fought in the off hours or by clandestine armies owned and supported by either side. Roadside bombs are deployed along with nasty drive by executions. Bombs are planted in pubs, schoolyards and shopping malls, their hatred knows no limits. The mother country helps the cause of the group that wishes to remain a part of the kingdom this being group A. Infuriated, group B redouble their waves of violence and even employ the help of outside entities to aid in the cause. For years the battle rages and the hatred builds. A child is born to a family in the east side and immediately brought into the group B doctrine. Here is the fifty fifty coin toss I mentioned in my first post. The child could easily have been born in the west end but fate placed him in the east. At the same time the child was born in the east, another was born in the west. Both children are loved and protected by their respective group A/B parents. The east side child grows up fed the group B religious doctrine along with the deep hatred of the west group A belief. The child learns to hate the opposition and all it stands for and will over time perpetuate the violent life it has been born into. The very same thing happens to the eastern born group B child. Both children are killed before they reach twenty years of age succumbing to the violence of the decades old war. Now the twist. Lets say the mother of the group A child did not give birth as she was killed three days after conception by a roadside bomb. The little soul/spirit was diverted to Wa Wa Ontario where he grew up with agnostic pot smoking parents and eventually became a Canadian rock star never knowing the dispute between the A or B group other than what he watched on the CBC nightly news. As a child he watched the news broadcast on TV and formed his own beliefs regarding the conflict. In fact it affected him so deeply he wrote a song about it that went to the top of the charts propelling him to stardom! My point being that the fifty fifty coin toss of where we end up being born is the problem, we are born into the hared and violence at that moment and the little minds are sculpted to suit the cause whatever it might be in the region they end up in! Hard point to put across but hey…I’m trying 