Delineation

[tomorrowstreasures]

My 2nd question of the day is this:

Create delineations between these categories:

• newbie
• amateur
• hobbyist
• serious hobbyist
• semi professional
• professional
• hall of fame - r

[kat]

Newbie- Getting your first camera and turning on the S-mode and wondering why your image is all black. The manual is a most read!!!! And Auto is your best friend.

Amateur- Not using Auto so much. Realizing that there is more to it and starting to get it.

Hobbyist/Serious hobbyist- The difference between the two being how much you are out shooting. I think these terms apply to a Newbie and Amateur more so then the next set of names. I feel (and of course this is my thought) that once you start making a livelyhood from photography it becomes not so much a hobby as a career/even though you enjoy your career.

Semi-professional - Almost there! Got most things worked out! You feel comfortable with your work but would like to get it just a bit more "perfect". I'd like to think this is where you start considering selling photos because people are asking to buy them!

Professional - You are there! You've learnt the techniques and skills that make you absolutley confident in yourself. No second guessing..seems like it's all up there and your photos are proof of that time and time again. No problems selling photos or getting work.

Hall of famer- Just like everything in life, you have those that are bad,good,the best, and a few who just have a talent that goes beyond "the best". That would be my hall of famer.

And this is how I think of the list. I'd like to har from others..maybe my thoughts are wrong and I should be looking at it a bit different

[jjeling]

I have moved from a serious hobbyist into the semi-professional then. Haha. This all sounds about right. While I would like to consider myself a professional, my confidence is not completely there yet. I know my images are generally as good as anyone else's for each situation, its just that self-assurance. It has greatly improved in the past couple months but not quite there yet. I still need to generate an income from it as well. As for Hall of Famer..........I will thank several of you when I get there.

[tirediron]

Newbie: Self-explanatory.

Amateur and hobbyist: Interchangable to a degree. Someone whose skill ranges from almost nothing, to just short of Ansel Adams, and spends as much time as he or she is able behind the lens, but doesn't make any money at it.

Semi-professional and professional: Someone who either makes a little money or all their money through photography. Has NO relation to their talent or abilities.

Hall of Famer: Someone who has achieved wide recognition both within and without the photographic community. Someone whose name is likely to recognized by 'Joe Average'.

[tomorrowstreasures]

I am about to hit the submit button with a bit of trepidation here. I just finished composing my on Professional status. Please, no throwing of old film cans at me. I am not one that is comfy with being negative but just needed to get this off of my chest.

The professional tag is the one I have the most difficulty with. There are many out there that tag them self as such. Just because you want to play in the game does not a professional make. I think it is ridiculous that one can tag them self as such with out paying the proverbial dues. I think that one should have to apply to an organization (run by professional peers) that specializes in granting professional status and then, at that time and only after that permission has been granted can you label yourself a pro. You would have to submit examples of your work, maybe and essay, maybe an exam. The market is becoming glutted with people who take decent images, but have not a clue how the image got that way, get a little encouragement from folks, then all of sudden, attach a title to their name - "professional" and then, feel the right to charge people these ridiculous fees for what they do (or in many cases what a decent dslr can do on auto or a helper mode). I think a proving ground is needed to be a true professional. In the days prior to digital, you had to know your craft inside and out to have consistent results... you paid your dues. The bar for a professional should be raised. A professional should be one of few not one of many. A professional used to have a sophistication attached to the title and now it seems that the professional is no more than someone who "decides" that they are such.

Personally speaking, I am a hobbyist. People have solicited my skills. It has gotten to the point that I no longer feel that I can give away what I do as I have a lot invested in equipment and reading materials, pp tools, time etc. I charge a very minimal fee to those that solicit me it and then get hammered from others that I am driving down the industry with my fees. I have not asked for the business, nor have I ever called myself a professional. I love to take photos. I want to know all that I can to produce the best piece that I can. I have no plan to make a career out of what I do.

I know I am standing pretty tall on a soap box here. It just frustrates me for those who really have earned the title.

[kat]

I agree with you! I really do think there are too many that think they are of that status.

I consider myself amateur. I wouldn't think to go above that.

I read somewhere, I think in a photo contest, that they considered one an amateur unless their photography makes up 90%+ of their income. But is it really about the money or skill. Or do you have that professional skill when you make that sort of money... Ha ha..I don't really know - never sold a photo.

This comes to mind :

Actors. Some better than others..but some of the best don't get paid like the others. But they never have trouble finding work or getting reconized by an award. I think your work always shows where you are at, and you can't fool anyone but yourself for that.

[Travis]

The professional tag is the one I have the most difficulty with. There are many out there that tag them self as such. Just because you want to play in the game does not a professional make. I think it is ridiculous that one can tag them self as such with out paying the proverbial dues. I think that one should have to apply to an organization (run by professional peers) that specializes in granting professional status and then, at that time and only after that permission has been granted can you label yourself a pro. You would have to submit examples of your work, maybe and essay, maybe an exam. The market is becoming glutted with people who take decent images, but have not a clue how the image got that way, get a little encouragement from folks, then all of sudden, attach a title to their name - "professional" and then, feel the right to charge people these ridiculous fees for what they do (or in many cases what a decent dslr can do on auto or a helper mode). I think a proving ground is needed to be a true professional. In the days prior to digital, you had to know your craft inside and out to have consistent results... you paid your dues. The bar for a professional should be raised. A professional should be one of few not one of many. A professional used to have a sophistication attached to the title and now it seems that the professional is no more than someone who "decides" that they are such.

Personally speaking, I am a hobbyist. People have solicited my skills. It has gotten to the point that I no longer feel that I can give away what I do as I have a lot invested in equipment and reading materials, pp tools, time etc. I charge a very minimal fee to those that solicit me it and then get hammered from others that I am driving down the industry with my fees. I have not asked for the business, nor have I ever called myself a professional. I love to take photos. I want to know all that I can to produce the best piece that I can. I have no plan to make a career out of what I do.

lol... you are whistling out of both sides of your mouth... on one side you say only acclaimed professionals should be able to charge for service and that an influx of non acclaimed pros have saturated the market... while on the other side you charge for your services which puts you in the very category you criticize...

I can't imagine submitting work to an estblishment for judgment on whether I'm "pro" or not.... photography is art..... art is subjective... the quality of the work is as perceived by the viewer... a governing body would stifle artistic flow...

look at music.. there are thousands of musicians out there making millions from their craft without any rudimentry musical theory skills.... some can only play 3 chords... some have their music written for them... but they are enjoyed by millions.... does that make them less professional? I think so but this is the reality...

IMO it's really hard to box the meaning of professional other than how Tirediron put it.... A person who exchanges images for money...

Quality of work in an entirely different subject.... In an open market it's always buyer beware and it's no different with photography...

I've seen professional mechanics take people to the cleaners... professional airline pilots drunk at the wheel... professional investment brokers thieve assets... professional home builders cut corners.... all of these people licensed by a regulatory body.... buyer beware...

just arguing for the sake